930 Turbo (advice & opinions please)

Del · Post by **Del** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:31 pm

A close friend of mine is interested in this car:

http://www.thunderroadporsche.co.uk/car ... _index.php

Although he has owned (and still does) many classic cars, he has never owned a Porsche and doesn't know what the ins and outs are on them - only that he wants one.

Of course you can't say without seeing it, i understand that.

Incidentally, does anyone know the dealers? I've never heard of them.

Thanks in advance.

hot66 · Post by **hot66** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:37 pm

you pass them on the road from Wetherby to Leeds. Used to be a classic car dealership selling MG's etc . Not sure if it's the same people, but I think they have only been 'Porsche' dealers for the past 24 months ????? I know nothing about them though.

Don't know the car either.

If he hasn't owned a Porsche before, are you sure he wants a Turbo ? Personally I don't really like turbos as I prefer N/A cars.

I do know this car, although maybe over budget ?

http://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/inde ... opic=12523

Nige · Post by **Nige** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:57 pm

If that is concours and as good as it looks in the pictures its very good value in my opinion.

Bertroex · Post by **Bertroex** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:35 pm

I have a 4 speed 930 as well as a normally aspirated Carrera 3.o, which is a bit lighter than it rolled off the factory line.

I had a bit of a stint with a 964 widebody as well. I immediately realised my mistake: why taking a good car and make it heavier, thirstier and create more drag: the polar opposite of what Ruf does (more powerfull engine in small light body). But I was lured by the whole athena poster thing and still, people get attracted to that wide body arse end.

So the 964 jubi went and the turbo came. At least, big arse and appropriate engine (for its time).

The turbo is an either/or car: on the one hand, I lets you waiting during B road driving, and on the other hand it is king of acceleration on the motorway.

The first UK test of the Turbo 3.3 was done by Steve Cropley at Car Magazine. I suppose that the quote of “into the red in second, the turbo does 95mph” could very well be true. I understood that third goes up to 130mph, but the bottom line is that you have to drive the thing like an animal in order to make stellar progress(and to keep up with a normally aspirated Carrera).

The reality is that driving a turbo is "hard work". Driving old porsches is still "slow in, fast out." With a turbo you brake, set the bend, floor it at 2400 rpm, waitwaitwait, hit the apex at 3000 rpm, BOOST, “crickey have we arrived already?” and BRAKE.

The carrera comes on cam at 4200 and due to its 5 speeds and short 2nd and 3rd, you are pretty much "bang on" and accelerate faster in "real world" conditions.

I don't have the numbers of the Turbo 3.3 at hand, but here is a comparison test of the then new Turbo 3.o vs the Carrera 3.o.

The turbo is in my opinion not really a balls-out car: it is a comfy long distance GT. On a European Autobahn you could technically accelerate in second on the sliproad, join the motorway at 85mph, meander through the lorries, put your foot down, redline, third, get some boost, and she will do 150 mph all day long until you have reached your Berlin office. But we live in the United Kingdom, with a speed limit of 70mph. Plently of A roads are restricted to 50 mph.... This car is a bit of a anachronism.

Having said that, the way its suspension works, how it grips the road, the way you can chuck it in a bend and the way this 911 is weighted: pure magic. This driving style is far too risky for a short wheel base 911, which was the original widow maker, but when the turbo 3.3 hit the market with its bigger tie rod ends, different banana arms and 917 derived braking, it is a Porsche Package that feels just right.

Furthermore, the turbo is quiet. The exhaust noise reverberating through the woods of the peak district is a joy in my carrera 3, but the turbo intercooler package quietens things down considerably in the 930.

So, for the moment I'm using the turbo for european long hauls, the Carrera for A and B road chasing.

RE running costs:

To put it into perspective, my turbo had a 5 pence sized bubble in both sills, and was looking, 9 years after a quality restoration by Porsche Silverstone "£20k all day long after detailing the swirl marks out".

Nearly £10 k later (sills, B posts, impact bumper brackets, windows out respray, all new rubbers and lenses, suspension rebuild, brakes rebuild, gearbox set up, couple of oil lines, rubber sealing rings in flywheel, engine seals) ....

I would expect any prospective purchaser to have a professional Pre Purchase Inspection done, after the initial impressions and inspection works out.

These things can be as reliable as a beetle on the condition that you spend money on its upkeep. (which is about the polar opposite of beetle upkeep prices.)

Miss a year or three, or potter about in the village 400 miles between MOT's for a few years and you might as well hand grenade your safe deposit box. I reckon on a par with receiving the total sum of the works that needs doing.

Trouble is, these turbo's are so over engineered that they can sustain a lot of abuse. Porsche reckons that 85% of their drivers don't know how to get the max potential out of their cars -I'm in that group, btw-, let alone that the majority of the "drivers" know the difference between a good and a bad one.

Old Porsches nearly always get rescued. A turbo will always sell. After all, Porsche cars GB only imported 930 of them in the UK.

Take care,

Bert

Bertroex · Post by **Bertroex** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:38 pm

Btw,

I wonder whether that Thunder Road car was owned previously by AirCooled Excellence, Tim, on here.

Send him a pm!

Bert

Nick Moss · Post by **Nick Moss** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:36 pm

The Kiln Red one is GeorgeK's car, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy it, as George doesn't scrimp on his cars.

Bert has said everything there is to say about the 3.3. It can be infuriatingly slow if you are pottering or chatting to your passenger and not keeping an eye open for overtaking opportunities or stunningly quick if you grab by the scruff of the neck and wring it out on a mountain road. I loved mine, took it to France twice where you have more opportunity to use the performance.

They can be very expensive to maintain if someone has scrimped in the past, but are bullet proof if looked after.

Del · Post by **Del** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:27 pm

Bertroex wrote:Btw,

I wonder whether that Thunder Road car was owned previously by AirCooled Excellence, Tim, on here.

Send him a pm!

Bert

Thanks for the reply Bert.

Apparently it was "previously supplied by them" and the current owner is away / abroad at the moment and due back to the UK very soon. He wants to sell it as it doesn't get much use.

Del · Post by **Del** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:29 pm

Nige wrote:If that is concours and as good as it looks in the pictures its very good value in my opinion.

I thought the same thing. All depends on the condition in the metal. I also find it quite frustrating when a dealer is selling a car that is supposedly concourse but only puts up small thumbnail sized pictures of it.

Del · Post by **Del** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:31 pm

hot66 wrote:If he hasn't owned a Porsche before, are you sure he wants a Turbo ? Personally I don't really like turbos as I prefer N/A cars.

No idea why he wants a Turbo. I love them look at (and grew up staring at the Athena poster of the grey one in the 80's) but like you also prefer the N/A cars.

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:34 pm

hot66 wrote:you pass them on the road from Wetherby to Leeds. Used to be a classic car dealership selling MG's etc . Not sure if it's the same people, but I think they have only been 'Porsche' dealers for the past 24 months ????? I know nothing about them though.

Don't know the car either.

If he hasn't owned a Porsche before, are you sure he wants a Turbo ? Personally I don't really like turbos as I prefer N/A cars.

I do know this car, although maybe over budget ?

http://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/inde ... opic=12523

oh boy.i'm in love.
that green interior if so wrong by todays tastes but its so right for the car. shame it's LHD else my chequebook would be out.

Del · Post by **Del** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:35 pm

by the way, i was supposed to say...

If anyone knows of another better / just as good 930 Turbo for sale, please let me know and i'll pass on the details to him.

In the meantime, thanks for the replies so far. Keep them coming, it's a very interesting subject (to me at least!)

Northy · Post by **Northy** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:40 pm

Helen wrote: oh boy.i'm in love.
that green interior if so wrong by todays tastes but its so right for the car. shame it's LHD else my chequebook would be out.

It's a beauty isn't it - I wish I had the funds to buy that car.

Bert, you're right about it looking like Tim's old car - I think his had black wheel centres, but it could well have had a 'touch up' since he had it. It was totally immaculate though, we went in convoy to Le Mans a few years back. IIRC he sold that for ~25K.

hot66 · Post by **hot66** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:52 pm

gridgway · Post by **gridgway** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:15 pm

so to go OT for a tiny bit, sorry...I am becoming intrigued with the 964 3.3 turbo. But I am concerned about the whole turbo lag lazy thing. Any experiences here with one?

Graham

Nige · Post by **Nige** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:41 am

I've driven Bert's Turbo for a good few miles and in my opinion for anything dual carriage way/motorway driving they're superb, unbeatable. When the Turbo kicks in its extremely addictive, but get them on a A or B road and the power just isn't quite at the right place or right time to make quick progress and a 'lesser powered' n/a Porsche would show one a clean pair of heels.

Having said that I think every Porsche nut must experience one to be able to tick it off the list.