1972 Porsche 911T Gulf Blue with 911E engine *SOLD*

[ross.mcw]

Many thanks for the info Barry, pretty much confirms what I'd assumed already - I'm still interested in the car, but probably need to do a bit more research to figure out what I'm really after.

Cheers, Ross.

[markm]

Is this worth looking at? If the majority know the car, why has it not sold yet?

[Barry]

Probably because it's not everyone's cup of tea, and it's in a price range where you probably have a choice of this, or a good genuine LHD car, or might even stray into questionable RHD stuff.

It's a LHD to RHD conversion, that'll inevitably put quite a few off, plus it's got fibreglass front wings. Also it's not an original type of finish: there are lots of bits that aren't correct for the year (black window trim, 16in Fuchs, no door pockets etc etc).

On the other hand, it's a very known quantity, as I rebuilt it a few years ago, and there should still be a stack of bills and photo's still with the car. It's very light, has got a re-built 'E' engine (running Zeniths, but could easily could be put over to PMO's or similar). When I did it, it had inner and outer sills, A-post bottoms, wings closers, and rear wings plus more. In terms of gaps, it's pretty spot-on, something that was much commented upon at the time it hit the road.

It really is very pretty, if you like Gulf Blue, a colour that makes those black trims make sense. It's also running Lokari arch liners and has two gallons of waxoyl everywhere, so can be used without worring too much.

It certainly drove rather well when I had it, and was very eye-catching. It got picked as one of five 'Stars of the Show' out of 400+ cars at a local classic show, and was much-admired where-ever I took it.

If you fancy a chat with someone that doesn't have an axe to grind either way, give me a shout.

[911Smonster]

If the majority know the car, why has it not sold yet?

Must be too expensive. It looks great fun, but there's no historical value in it, so it will have to sell entirely on it's own merit. Traditionally, likeable mongrels like this have always been around the £10K mark, but I suspect this (and similar cars) are being priced higher to reflect the recent rise in value of original cars.

[markm]

If the majority know the car, why has it not sold yet?

Must be too expensive. It looks great fun, but there's no historical value in it, so it will have to sell entirely on it's own merit. Traditionally, likeable mongrels like this have always been around the £10K mark, but I suspect this (and similar cars) are being priced higher to reflect the recent rise in
value of original cars.

So in short, if it was still a LHD, did not have GRP wings, had the right engine it would be worth it.

[210bhp]

I think we have to be very careful what we say here. A guy has put his car up for sale on this forum and for all we know he may need the money badly (start up a business, pay for his kids education etc etc). What it is actually worth is what someone will pay and that someone might have been very willing to pay the asking price until he/she read this thread. If I were the seller I might be a bit peeved at the dumbing down of the price and pointing out what might be right or wrong with the car. There is nothing wrong with the facts being laid bare (ie what happened during restoration) but not sure how far 'opinions' should be expressed before a sale is completed.

I think we should be mindful that it could be our car we are trying to sell on this forum someday.

Regards
Mike

[Nige]

You are right Mike, probably worth PM'ing Bootsy to par the thread down abit and just keep the relevant stuff on there. I actually don't think the asking price is far off the mark anyway. Its certainly worth more than 10k

[Mick Cliff]

What it is actually worth is what someone will pay and that someone might have been very willing to pay the asking price until he/she read this thread

So, so true.
I was contemplating this car at the asking price, but have found myself lowering the value based on what has been said in this topic.
Now what do I do? It is still a 'good' price; Barry's workmanship is exceptional; with current 'values', it is a (relatively) 'cheap' toy for someone who is not buying as an investment. I think I'd be prepared to thrash this car around the lanes near me rather than 'gently' drive the RS rep that I once owned but became too wary of its' intrinsic value to risk any damage.

[Bootsy]

I think we have to be very careful what we say here. A guy has put his car up for sale on this forum and for all we know he may need the money badly (start up a business, pay for his kids education etc etc). What it is actually worth is what someone will pay and that someone might have been very willing to pay the asking price until he/she read this thread. If I were the seller I might be a bit peeved at the dumbing down of the price and pointing out what might be right or wrong with the car. There is nothing wrong with the facts being laid bare (ie what happened during restoration) but not sure how far 'opinions' should be expressed before a sale is completed.

I think we should be mindful that it could be our car we are trying to sell on this forum someday.

Regards
Mike

Wise words Mike - I advocate people viewing cars rather than asking too much 'forum' opinion. Barry has given a frank statement of the work carried out and offered to discuss the car further with anyone if they feel the need - however, get in a car, drive to Suffolk (beware of those Ipswich supporting Tractor Boys) and view it. if you like it decide what it's worth to you and make an offer. If you want any information or opinion from somebody else get them to view it or speak to them privately.

I've seen the car in the flesh at Barry's many moons ago and on the road and it's a very pretty car with some quality work gone into it - VIEW IT!

[markm]

I have to say in reading your comments, perhaps the forum was not the place for me to ask the questions I did. It was not my intention to portray anything bad about the vehicle in question, in actual fact I am very interested in looking at it irrespective of the comments made if she is still for sale, I was merely trying understand the market for these cars as I have been looking now for about 6 monhts, what is valued at what, nothing else.

[Barry]

Hi All.

Mark: there was nothing wrong with your enquiry, all you did was ask the question. As a forum regular, and the restorer / previous owner of it, I felt that it is my prerogative to highlight my view of the car.

Both are very different from a random opinion from someone who has not seen the car, absolutely the critical thing here. On the other hand, and in fairness of balance, there was a certain recommendation to view from the very same person elsewhere on the forum:

'I'd also go and take a look at this car. Not completely original, but it looks great and has an E spec engine.'

Anyway, with all 911's, and early ones in particular, condition is everything. It would be easy find you had bought a nice, original (rotton) 911, only to find that you need to spend 15-30K on the body.

As for price, my personal feeling is that in the current climate, and knowing the car, I view it as good value. I cannot emphasis enough the value of the car being a known quantity, particularly as all of the work (and expenses) are fully documented.

When I built the car, I wanted to drive on the right. I still do, and indeed my 'E' was already converted when I bought it. When I took the Gulf Blue one for it's tax-exemption (historic) inspection, there were three people who looked at it. The DLVA chap, a retiring police vehicle fraud officer, and his new trainee. All missed the fact that it had been converted: funny as the police were studying it closely, as the retiring officer was using it as an example of a 'nice original car, you can tell it's not been messed with'. Even when taken on a tour of the work, they still couldn't see it had been done, and this was before either the interior or boot were trimmed.

Also, can I highlight, that when I sold the car, over two years ago, it sold within a few hours of being put up for sale. The price wasn't much different to that which it's now being offered. I would hope that this would reassure anyone that the car is very much well worth a look.

[sladey]

I'll just throw my bit in here. I've seen what Barry can do with metal. He has exceptional skill, and is incredibly meticulous in the work he does. He will spend hours getting the shape of a kidney bowl 'just so' when other ('normal'?) people would weld on a flat piece of metal or bodge it up.

Basically if I was in the market for a car in this price bracket I'd be seriously looking at this. I agree RHD conversions are usually to be treated with caution but because of the pedigree of work involved I'd be very happy about buying this car.

[duka]

Also, can I highlight, that when I sold the car, over two years ago, it sold within a few hours of being put up for sale. The price wasn't much different to that which it's now being offered. I would hope that this would reassure anyone that the car is very much well worth a look.

I tried to buy the car off Barry but missed it buy ½ hour - If I hadn't found another car and gone down the rebuid route I would buy it today.

[Barry]

Hi there, I'd forgotton you were interested in it as well .

[911Smonster]

Both are very different from a random opinion from someone who has not seen the car, absolutely the critical thing here. On the other hand, and in fairness of balance, there was a certain recommendation to view from the very same person elsewhere on the forum:

Just to clarify, I was only commenting on the fact that it hasn't sold at that price so far, which implies the price is too high, at least for a quick sale. In the current climate, from what I can see it looks like good value for someone not bothered about originality, but who really wants an early RHD 911. If I was looking for such a niche car, I'd be viewing it for sure. It looks like a fun drive, hence why I pointed to it in other threads as something worth viewing. As already said, it's worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

If someone plugs their car on a public forum, they should expect a bit of discussion and I don't think it's fair to say that you shouldn't comment at all unless you've personally viewed the car.