Won't start - advice please

jh · Post by jh » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:58 pm

Hey folks,
Vowed to drive my car more this year but so far not having much luck - had trouble starting it last week but eventually got it going and then it started fine for a few days. But all this week i haven't been able to get it going at all so I need a little help.

The story is....turn the key and it kind of low muffled coughs and coughs but just never fires up enough to give me any confidence that it'll start.

I'm a complete novice so any pointers on what I need to be looking for will help a lot.

Thanks

jury · Post by **jury** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:14 pm

Its happened to me and turned out to be dirty spark plugs. Don't know how they are on an E but they were fairly tricky to get out, but once out they are cheap to replace. If possible its a good idea to blast some compressed air over the plug before removing so that any dust etc doesn't fall in. Once back together spray some starter fluid in the carbs before starting

Hope you get it sorted.

bjmullan · Post by **bjmullan** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:31 pm

You need three things to make an engine work. Spark, fuel and air. It's just a matter of checking some basic things.

1. Battery. The first things to check is your battery. When you turn the engine over does it turn quickly or slowly? You may be getting a spark but the battery is not strong enough.

2. Points. Take the dissy cap off and when someone else turns the engine can you see the points arc? If not check the quality and gap of your points and adjust/replace if necessary.

3. Spark plug. Take a spark plug out and while grounding it against the engine again get someone to turn the engine over. Do you see a nice clear spark? If not either your leads are shot or you have bad plugs. Check clean and adjust the gap on all plugs. (Remember to put the dissy cap on before doing this test

)

4. Fuel. The simplest test for fuel is can you smell petrol

Not familiar with the 912 carb setup but it should be possible to look into the carb when someone is pressing the accelerator petal to see if fuel is entering the venturi. If you have a strong smell of petrol you could have flooded the engine (wet plugs) or you could be running too rich.

5. Air. Are you still breathing?

Hope this helps.

jh · Post by jh » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:42 pm

folks, thanks a million for those replies. I have somewhere to start now at least.

eki912 · Post by **eki912** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:56 am

I presume you are running the stock L-Jet ?
Get the manual for L-jet. For example from Texas bbs site.
Free , and a good one to have around .

But those symptoms , sounds like ignition issue.
Check or renew or adjust :
- sparkplugs , renew & check the correct gap
- points , renew & check the correct gap
- condensator , renew
- rotor & distributor car , check & renew

Maybe even the parkplug wires needs replacing ?

eki912 · Post by **eki912** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:29 am

Another thing that can and might do this kind of tricks , is the Head temp Sensor , close to cylinder 3.
Loose or cut wire there or broken sensor.
Again , if you are using teh L-jet , if carbs , then not this.

louis356 · Post by **louis356** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:07 am

Did you ever get it started?

Nige · Post by **Nige** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:15 am

Its running twin 40 Dell's and pertronix ignition. I would suspect either a lack of fuel or fouled plugs as from previous posts it hasn't been out/run much. None of the L jet issues apply really.

Remove one of the fuel lines from the carbs and and turn on the ignition to see if fuel is being pumped through, helps if you have a helper to flick the ignition on and off. Have a few rags handy to catch the fuel. If you have fuel then the fuel pump is fine. If not check the fuse and wiring to it, its simply wired in. If it been run low some muck may have jammed the pump, there is an inline filter to prevent this but you never know. Easy way to un-jam it is to swap the wiring over so it runs in reverse for a few seconds, this won't harm anything.

Once that's check, pull the plugs to see they're sooted up, give them a good clean and pop them back in.

You've also changed the intake manifolds, I presume you removed the HT leads to do this, just check they're in the right order. This is dead easy to check, let me know if you're unsure.

I've also heard that the pertronix module can just pack up on a whim, but tick the other items of the list before investigating this.

Other than that, once its going keep using it regularly.

jh · Post by jh » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:22 pm

Thanks again all for the help. I started with the obvious and charged up the battery - it was well low and took a day and a half to charge but still not fully. I kind of pinned all my hopes on that one because weekend was taken up with other work and it kind of made sense to me the way the car was so lifelessly coughing. But....you guessed it....that didn't do the trick.

I'll next try the HT leads because, Nige, you are right I've had them off. but the car has worked since so I'm not optimistic about that. Probably then the fuel because that's and easy check. Then the sparks but embarassed to say I don't know where to start with those.

Hopefully it all becomes clear. I just need a few hours of daylight.

eki912 · Post by **eki912** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:24 am

OK , so no L-jet.
Check the spark.And plugs. Or better yet , change them , while at it.
With the correct sparkplug gap.

It is hard to do.... but worth it , and easy DIY job.

Der Fudgemeister · Post by **Der Fudgemeister** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:55 am

To Sympathise,

I took a day off work yesterday to do some work on Fudge who still has her Bosch FI system fitted (an undeservedly berated FI system IMHO

). Her battery was not up to snuff so all she did was cough a few times then nothing.
I know 912E #381 in Huddersfield which is on twin Kadrons and unless the battery is fully charged up that won't start either.

I am now charging up #576's battery as i now intend to work on Fudge this sunday but the forcast for Dewsbury is heavy snow

jh · Post by jh » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:27 pm

Hey folks, i have just one more question for you....but first an update....

I had again only probably half an hour of daylight to play with this weekend so I checked out a few things - the HT lead idea was a good'un because one was, in fact, loose but, alas, didn't solve the problem.

Then I tried to remove the fuel line but it is too hard to - from previous experience the only way i could remove them from the carbs was to cut them so I really want to avoid that for the moment.

Turned my attention to the spark plugs then and removed one with a view to buying some new ones. The one I removed was all black (An indication of bad fuel/air mix i believe from a quick glance at a 912 book i have).

Anyway, I went to the only car shop open (Halfords) but they didn't have the same spark and couldn't recommend anything. So, my question....the spark is an NGK B8EGV and as they do stock Bosch I was wondering what the equivalent might be?

Or, are there other spark plug options I can use?

Thanks again. Going nuts that I cannot get time to sort this problem out.

Nige · Post by **Nige** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:39 pm

man you don't have much fun, remove the fuel line at the banjo on the carb, don't try and pull the hose of the adapter. Think its 15mm nut, then the whole thing comes of, should take you no more than 1 minute.

Not sure on the plugs, they're are nothing special and I'm surprised Halfords didn't have them, my local car shop had them in stock and his store is no bigger than my front room. Even if you can't get new plugs just clean them up with a soft wire brush and WD40, its should still want to start on these.

You should be able to hear the fuel pump running withg the ignition turned, should just be a buzzing sound and is quite clear when you stick your head under the front valance.

Nige · Post by **Nige** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:49 pm

are you sure the lead from the coil to dissy is good, seem to remember the lead for that was abit too fat for the dissy cap?

jh · Post by jh » Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:38 pm

You are soooo right - fun seems to be distant memory these days. Even the other car - the 96 Golf - failed the NCT (your MOT I suppose) on Saturday. Can you believe it failed for a dodgy window winder!!!! The good news was that the German fellow tester seems really (like REALLY) surprised that the car scored pretty much tops on all the mechanical things. Was pretty surprised myself too. Removed the door card in a wind and rain swept car park while wife and boy were at baby music class! But couldn't fix that either. Froze my txts off though.

Anyway, with the fuel line I actually was talking about the banjo - when the hose goes on there it goes on for good in my experience (limited that it is but unfortunately not completely limited with the troubles I've had with the carbs

Fuel pump is defintely working because I can hear it but I'd still liek to do this test - and will when I can give it a little more time.

With the sparks thanks for that advice - I'm never sure if I should be looking for something very specific or not. Hence the run to the shop to see if i could get the exact same ones should i need them. I'm sure I'll pick some of the same up at the motor factors some evening this week.

I plan to clean them up as you advise and try them if i cannot get some new ones - just thought that for €20-odd I'd be better off replacing them.

Didn't notice anything weird about any of the leads but will check that for sure too.

Thanks again for the steer - must confuse you that your old beloved is not zipping about like it should be.