Off topic watch chat for the horologists out there

[sladey]

i james watches are like cars a real boys toys thing, you wont stop, there is always somthing else you want i have given up as i have some 36 good watches, in my day you started off steel moved to gold and go back to steel only it does grab you! be careful peter

I really like watches, but I found the opposite - bought the one I wanted, and that was that. It's only a Speedmaster Reduced, but I wear it all the time - at work, painting the shed, fixing the car, in bed. It's hammered to crap, but I love it.

I do sometimes wonder if I'd like a full-sizes one, but only now and again.

James - wear that Sub forever and be happy with it. My godfather has one that he bought in the early eighties and treats it like I do mine. Some of the black edging has worn away and it looks awesome.

Shiny watches are as gehlorhd as shiny cars. Use it like you would a daily-driver!

I'm exactly the same Jamie, as soon as I bought mine I stopped looking at watches online and kept looking at mine. I definitely did that thing for a while where you lift your wrist to see what time it is, are struck by the beauty of the watch, and then forget to read the time.

[964RS]

Whats Wabi?

You asked!!!!!!!


What is Wabi?

The 17th century Japanese haiku poet Matsuo Basho coined the term wabi. The word means something like “loneliness” or “forlornness.” A few years back watch collectors started using the term wabi when talking about dirt, grime, and discoloration that old watches acquire. But wabi is not synonymous with crud. Wabi is the ache in your heart, sometimes felt when looking at something ravaged by time.


Wabi is not a word on the tips of Japanese people’s tongues. In Japan, the word is mainly used in the rarefied world of the tea ceremony, and in literati circles. Most Japanese people don’t pretend to understand the meaning of wabi, or feel they have the ability to use the word correctly.

Soetsu Yanagi, the father of the Japanese folk crafts movement, wrote about this in his book The Unknown Craftsman; A Japanese Insight into Beauty. Yanagi suggests that for most people, the word shibusa (the noun form) is a better term than wabi. That’s because “the word wabi cannot be demonstrated by physical sense; it must be conveyed by formless spirit,” Yanagi writes.

The word shibui (the adjective form) is a common term in Japan, used by people every day. Yanagi continues:

Wabi and shibusa, then, stand for the same thing. But whereas the word wabi belongs to the vocabulary of the select few, shibusa is overheard in the common parlance of the masses.

Shibui means different things according to context, including: old, old fashioned, dull (as in muted colors), cool, dry, and bitter. The meaning of the word can be tasted in fruit from Japanese persimmon trees. There are two types of persimmon trees (kaki no ki) in Japan, non-astringent (amagaki = sweet persimmon) and astringent (shibugaki = bitter persimmon). Plucked from a tree, the fruit from shibugaki is so tart one’s throat tightens up and it’s impossible to swallow. But cut it into slices and hang it on a string in the sun, and over time the fruit becomes sweet and delicious.


It is the same with our watches. Used daily our watches collect scratches, dents, and scars that weather them. It’s bitter to scratch a watch, but it’s sweet years later to see a scar and remember the fishing trip one was on when it happened. That’s a shibui feeling.

Wabi in the Western World?

The insight that things acquire beauty through use isn’t uniquely oriental. Henry David Thoreau and Basho were like-minded souls. Writing about one of life’s necessities — clothing — in Walden; A Life In The Woods, Thoreau observed:

Kings and queens who wear a suit but once … cannot know the comfort of wearing a suit that fits. They are no better than wooden horses to hang the clean clothes on. Every day our garments become more assimilated to ourselves, receiving the impress of the wearer’s character, until we hesitate to lay them aside … No man ever stood lower in my estimation for having a patch in his clothes … I often test my acquaintances by such tests as this — Who could wear a patch … over the knee? Most behave as if they believed that their prospects for life would be ruined if they should do it. It would be easier for them to hobble to town with a broken leg than with a broken pantaloon.

Just like our clothes becomes more a part of us each time we wear them, so it is with our watches. The bruises they pick up over time become a record of our lives. Sort of like the lines on our faces as we age. That is what makes them, and us, unique. We may long for youth, for unmarred beauty — but the imperfections add a quality of shibusa, or bitterness, that looked at the right way is paradoxically sweet.

It’s easy to be glib about this, but the proof is in the pudding. I once sold a recently purchased Grand Seiko I hit against the edge of a glass door and deeply scratched. The episode left a psychological scar, and I couldn’t bare to look at the watch. Things are complicated in reality.


Dr. Wayne Lee, founder/owner of the Seiko Citizen Watch Forum (SCWF), once wrote that he could recall the circumstances around every scratch on his cherished Grand Seiko (pictured above). He said each mark had a story. When he sent the watch into Seiko Japan for servicing, watchmakers buffed all the scratches out of the case. Reading about this on the SCWF in 2003, I imagined I could sense mixed emotions in Wayne’s words:

Today, I received my 9S55 GS that was sent to Katsu Higuchi for service. Seiko Japan has done a good job. It has gone through an overhaul, case and bracelet polishing and my beloved watch that has been with me for the last 4 years looks almost 95% mint. All the scratch marks that have their stories on the watch are no longer visible.

In contrast, Wayne’s good friend Seiya Kobayashi has an Alba military watch he used for a decade while working in Tokyo as a television producer.


The watch was put through the mill. Seiya said he wore it during the day on camera shoots in freezing Hokkaido weather, and at night it soaked with him in molten hot spring baths. If Seiya had changed the glass crystal, or had the case buffed to remove the scratches, it would have lost as much as it gained. Seiya’s watch is shibui.

Conclusion

This article has only scratched the surface of the topic of wabi. There is so much more to say. For instance, it’s only slightly touched on issues of humility and uniqueness, both essential elements of wabi. At the very least, perhaps it provides a small taste of the nuances of this Japanese word, and serves as a caution against throwing it around too lightly. I also hope this article helps us all appreciate our watches more as we bump our way through life together.

[Nige]

for gods sake its a wind up watch!

[964RS]

for gods sake its a wind up watch!

But you've posted over 2,000 times on a forum for something with 4 wheels that gets you from A to B.

For god's sake its a car!

[Nige]

Ultimately its just a chunk of metal to me. I don't get all watery eyed about it.

Perhaps I'm just a shell of no emotions

[hot66]

Ultimately its just a chunk of metal to me. I don't get all watery eyed about it.

Perhaps I'm just a shell of no emotions

To me, my car is sooooo much more than a chunk of metal It is part of me & carries with it some fabulous memories & experiences

I suppose we all have things we are attached to , wether it is cars, watches , wives


I think you need to drag that 3.2 out on some DDK runs Nige & get an emotional attachment to it Don't you fancy the C2C ?

[sladey]

Whats Wabi?

You asked!!!!!!!

What is Wabi?

The 17th century J yadda yadda yadda some japanes stuff, patina is good yadda yadda yadda ...... way through life together.

Blimey! I like that.

As my mate said to me once - (in Nottingham accent) "you like ode sh1t don't you" - and yes I do - I like the patina of age.

[Bootsy]

Taking of Seiko.

My father used to hoard them.

I have a couple of his 70s Chronos - one was NOS.

They are wonderful watches and great designs, I must take some shots of them.

[964RS]

Bootsy - Seiko are probably still regarded as the best all round watches in the world by most watch enthusiasts.

Nige - get some passion in your life mate

[Mike]

While understanding the concept of 'Wabi', it's interpretation with regard to watches is interesting, to gaze upon scratches, defects and discolouration may give some pleasure, but to my eye these are imperfections that must be addressed, so I suppose my Rolex 1680 must be 'Wabi' free.

It's lead a very hard life, been in over 20 war's and had some bad knocks, so every 2-3 years my watch goes back to Rolex who spend 6 weeks polishing out the scratches, cleaning the dial and hands, replacing the glass and every now and again the bezel. Any wear in the bracelet and the link is changed and the safety catch replaced to be on the safe side. The watch is then pressure tested in a depth chamber to ensure it's correctly waterproof.

The pleasure I get on it's return is immense, to see it in pristine condition as beautiful to me as the day I was given it nearly 30 years ago, is a fantastic pleasure.
I guess it figures really because I think exactly the same about my cars, maybe my attitude about the watch goes some way to explain my obsessiveness with the car!

[Nige]

I think you need to drag that 3.2 out on some DDK runs Nige & get an emotional attachment to it Don't you fancy the C2C ?

very tempted, just got to sort a few things out career wise before I commit, can't think that far ahead yet.

[mycar]

The 17th century J yadda yadda yadda some japanes stuff, patina is good yadda yadda yadda ...... way through life together.

I agree, always buy stuff that wears in, before it wears out.

Mike.

[964RS]

I guess it figures really because I think exactly the same about my cars, maybe my attitude about the watch goes some way to explain my obsessiveness with the car!

I think peoples watch attitude reflects a lot of their personal attitudes Mike.

And if everyone thought the same the world would be a boring place.

Chris emailed me last week saying he had seen my RSR in GTPP and the fact that the black lines on the rear bumper were not perfectly straight was driving him nuts. I replied my attitude is in hommage to the race teams of the time that the car is also in hommage too and I didn't think they could care less how straight the graphics were on the bumper!

Same car different attitudes!

[Del]

Taking of Seiko.

They are wonderful watches and great designs, I must take some shots of them.

i'd like a bullhead but they seem to go for silly money.

[group4st]

Hi Mike
Dont get me started on watches when you come by,if you think i am obsessive about cars!
Dont polish to many of those marks and scratches out of your roli.
Fine watches go well with fine cars and wine!And of course great accurate engineering just like a porsche.