How Much Underseal???

1972_911t · Post by **1972_911t** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:27 am

Hi Barry if you fancy adding another gun and cars worth of sealer to your quote id be up for the bulk buy. I need this fairly imminently as the cars back from e-coating this week

Steve

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:36 pm

Barry wrote:Go the book in front of me:

Spray Sealer (wet-on-wet) Black 0893 226 Grey 0893 228 Air Applicator Gun 1891 628 0

They also list two numbers for inner and outer nozzles for the gun: I assume the gun already comes with these, but you can buy these as spares?

Outer Nozzle 1891 984 65 Inner Nozzle 1891 260 003

Spoke to them today and was told my account was "wurth industries" and these are products of "wurth uk"

I convinced them to look at it for me and they said the part numbers were out of date.

I then asked if they could ring wurth uk (same building probably).

They then came back to me and said the product was obsolete but they could offer me some underseal in a bucket

Unhelpful little man.

Sorry I did try my best.

Nick Moss · Post by **Nick Moss** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:37 pm

The gun that I use doesn't seem to be available anymore but has been replaced by 1891 628 0

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:07 pm

Hi: belated update.

The man from 3M came out on Monday (about three hours after our initial conversation). To his huge credit, he had gone back to his depot, got a gun plus a tube of sealant.

He then left the gun on trust for me to try, on the condition if the product wasn't what I needed he would return later in the week for the gun (sample FOC regardless): can't say fairer than that.

The product is the meant to be the eqivalent of the Wurth product on all levels. Certainly, conbined with the gun, you can reproduce Renualt/BMW etc sealed seams. The product can be extruded and brushed, and best of all, can reproduce the O.E. finish for Porsche undersides.

It can be painted over wet-on-wet, with solid glosses or with primer if painting in pearl/metallic. Tack time is 25 mins or so, so by time you had treated the car, you could swap guns and go straight over with the colour.

24 hours later I tested the product: it had virtually the same thickness as when wet (no apparent shrinkage at all). The finish is very 'rubbery' in feel, with amazing resistance to impact damage: I tested it by dropping 1.2mm steel offcuts on it edge first: even large (4 in sq.) pieces just bounced of, even when the corner hit first. I sprayed the trial pieces direct to bare un-keyed steel, so it was unsurprising that the finish could be peeled off: not easily though, and I'm sure when latched onto primer/E-coat it would have a high adhesion.

I bought 24 tubes (two cases) and retained the gun FOC: total cost was around £261 I think. I'll post up how much I use on Jonathan's car which will be all but the engine bay and inside of front outer wings. The suppliers are kindly putting another case on standby just in case I need some more at short notice.

If anyone wants to do a whole car, I would suggest finding your local 3M stockist and having a deal with them: my rep was amazed at the quantity I wanted, as most people use the system for accident repairs, when two or three tubes is a normal order.

Thanks for the info, Derek: looks as though I'll have to treat my cast-off catalogue with a bit of caution!

Nick: does you gun look a bit like a gravity fed spraygun with the cannister held horizontal on top?

P.S. part number for the sealant: 08851

Nick Moss · Post by **Nick Moss** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:13 pm

Nick: does you gun look a bit like a gravity fed spraygun with the cannister held horizontal on top?

Yes

As I said, I needed 30 tubes to do a complete car. Its not cheap, its not easy to get the right finish, but its correct.

1972_911t · Post by **1972_911t** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:19 am

Just been looking on the 3M uk site is his the gun?

http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebs ... _pCOrrrrQ-

Im going to try and get a rep to come and see me, do you think they will come to peopel who are not in the trade?

Steve

Nick Moss · Post by **Nick Moss** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:50 am

That is the same as the Wurth gun, which is no longer available.

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:44 am

That's the gun they've given me

.

Steve: he was happy to come out to me: I just explained that I had a lot to do, would place an initial order of two cases with the likelyhood of another half case straight after.

When I spoke to him on the phone I explained it was a just a house, but that I had an air supply ready and some offcuts to try it out on. It's probably down to how keen your local rep is really.

As Nick says, it looks as though it will take some practice to get a really consistent finish: proably take a couple of tubes to get into it. I'm hoping that the settings I've left the gun at will carry over O.K. to give me a head start.

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:47 am

BTW, we're not doing the inside of the front outer wings (paintshop can do that

) and the engine bay finish is already perfect, so I'm hoping we'll be about right with our 24 tubes

.

1972_911t · Post by **1972_911t** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:52 pm

Couldnt find any rep details on the 3m site so I tried a couple of the local distributers they listed. A couple tried to sell me Schults, one said he could get it in for me at £11 at tube but I would need to order 36 to get the 30 I wanted and £175 for the gun total with vat came to best part of £600. Then I tried one last place in sheffield as soon as I mentioned I wanted 30 tubes he told me straight off I can have a free gun, £12.45 A tube with 15% discount so £10.50. Total for my 30 tubes and gun would be £367 with the vat.

Barry was your total with vat or plus vat?

Steve

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:14 pm

My total was about £261 with Vat, but that was for 24 tubes (at the moment anyway). They did a discount (plus I'd had the free gun) to get to this price.

I certainly felt as though they had done everything to get the business, so good for them.

1972_911t · Post by **1972_911t** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:39 pm

Mine works out at £1.30 a tube more not much but its still £40 extra for the amount im buying, Ill try find a 3m rep.

How did you find the details of your guy?

Thanks Steve

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:53 pm

I was lucky: a friend gave me the number of the local 3M dealer. They in turn, weren't sure about the properties of the product so got the rep. to phone me direct.

I'd go back to the supplier and say that you would like to speak direct to the rep: perhaps lob some really technical questions at them so they think it would be easier to palm you off onto him

.