Indicator tell-tale.

For all you Porsche 914 fanatics!

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Barry
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Indicator tell-tale.

Post by Barry »

Trying to get the '14 ready for MoT, and having sorted the headlight lift, pass. door handle N/W, washer jets N/W, front sidelights N/W, front driving lights N/W, replaced front shocks (Spax adjustables), I'm now stuck ....

Hazards on: light on hazard switch flashes, as does the indicator tell-tale on dash. If you indicate, you just get one flash from the dash tell-tale, while the actual indicators work fine (complete with nice steady ticking sound). The lack of tell-tale is MOT failure (or will be anyway).

Things I've tried:

All earths.
All indicator bulb resistances and connections.
Swapped tell tale for the main beam one (that works fine): still the same.
Rev counter (where the tell-tale lives) earth.
Connection between flasher unit and tell tale: I'm assuming the indicator switch itself must be O.K. as the indicators are flashing.
Two different flasher units.
Voltage and earth at flasher unit.
General wiring around flasher unit, indicator switch, and hazard switch.

Seems odd that the tell tale works fine with the hazards, and yet the same tell tale running through the same flasher unit does not work with the indicators, other than the one flash :? :? :? :?:

If the 914 had seperate left and right tell tales, I would just bypass the existing wiring and hard wire the tell tale to each indicator circuit, but it only has one bulb for both.

Having spent over eight hours on this, on the drive in the cold wind (garage full: nice timing :( ), I'm running low on ideas .... any thoughts?

BTW, with the cover off of the flasher unit, it is of the older style, with two solenoids: a larger one for the flashers, and a little one for the tell tale. You can actually see the small one just work once, and then stop, almost as if something has broken the circuit. I would buy another one, but having already bought one new one that behaves in just the same way, I thought I would try here first.

I'm getting jittery as V/World is fast looming, and time is getting tight :shock: .
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impmad2000
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Post by impmad2000 »

Hi Barry,
I'm assuming that the wiring for the '14 is similar to that of the '69 ish 911... well they do both use a 4 lead indicator flasher, and the diagram I'm looking at has the two relays you describe. So, here goes....
The current flows from 12v through the black/wh/grn wire to the LH/RH indicator stalk and also on to the hazard switch. In the event of the indicator stalk, one indicator load passes current to earth through the indicator bulb, second coil of the flasher relay. Once the timer ckt in the flasher times out, the other relay opens and interrupts the current and the current flow to the lamp stops. The timer starts its cycle again etc.... turning on the current to the lamp. Now the load of the indicator repeater is very small, and is actually operated by the voltage across the second relays contac rather than the current flow, hence the second circuit, in other words the second relay must open in order to turn on the indicator repeator lamp (It manages this once!)
Second time there is just not enough current flow through the second relay to actually do this ! Perhaps because the there is a poor connection somewhere, poor connection, high resistance, leads to heat and higher resistance .... hence it does it only once....
Now in the event of the hazard flashers, TWO indicator loads are connected to ground via the hazard switch, twice as much current flows and the indicator lamp repeater relay operates....
That's the long version (I think, and am happy to be proved wrong ...)
Check the indicator bulb (at the corners) for good ground returns. Make sure that the lamp holder ground voltage doesn't rise when the lamps is on. Make sure that the other side lights etc in the same lamp unit don't glow slightly too !
EARTH FAULTS, don't you just love em ! I suspect that this is where this one is lurking
All the best and sorry for the long post :)

Tim
Tim Bennett
RHD Targa 2.2T EFI, Triumph ITB's, EDIS and Megasquirt.
"Old enough to know what's right and young enough not to choose it"
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fourteener
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Post by fourteener »

Barry, most 14's have seperate left/right tell-tale
roger
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Post by roger »

Barry

I had lots of electrical "funnies" like this on mine and ended up replacing all the relays which sorted it.
Roger -
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Barry
Nurse, I think I need some assistance
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Post by Barry »

Thanks chaps.

Tim, that's great: looking at the Haynes wiring diagram, it was not clear (to me at least) how the system works: certainly not in the detail you describe. I had suspected that the single flash was probably the key somehow, but not how to take it further.

I also suspected earths, and indeed found several poor ones, showing volts between the earth wire itself, and the earth terminal (which I thought I had corrected). I'll go back through and double check them, and give each bulb a second earth in the interests of science. As the car originally had side repeaters (now removed) I did wonder if the flasher was 'expecting' the load of the missing bulbs, and even dummied up a 5 watt replacement on one side, made no difference though ...

I'll keep you posted :)
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drummerboytom
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Post by drummerboytom »

fourteener wrote:Barry, most 14's have seperate left/right tell-tale
Apparantley seperate tell-tales for the sake of symmetry , but they both light whichever indicator is flashing , if my memory is correct .
drummerboytom
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Barry
Nurse, I think I need some assistance
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Post by Barry »

Mine has definitely just got one bulb, with an arrow either side, as opposed to the 911 which had a bulb in each arrow.

Ironically, I had a similar problem in the 911, and that did indeed turn out to be a poor earth: this time on the rev-counter housing. Needless to say, I have tried an additional earth on this rev. counter, to no avail.

Will have another look at it later in the week: perhaps going back to it 'fresh' will help ....
DDK Member1243 07741 273865. Home of the RY Austin 7 Trophy's and Austin Single Seat Racers
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