Supercharging a Type IV?

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:22 am

Has this been done before?

Don't know why I thought of it, but knowing a Type IV is meant to be pretty strong on the bottom end, and that the car is quite high geared, plus plenty of spare space in the engine bay, must be worth a look. Obviously the extra weight is going into the right area: bang in the midle of the car.

The charger that springs to mind is the Eaton M45 Mini Cooper one: it seems that there are plenty on flea bay for v. small bucks. It's mainly designed for 2.0-3.0L engines, so could run quite slow (keep the heat down). I've got the TIG, so in theory could do all of the manifolding in stainless, plus I've got the lathe and mill for the other mechanical bits.

Ist problem that I can see is getting the drive upto the charger.

then:

Compression ratio?
Fuel (SU on the charger?) or injection (£££'s plus complicated?)
Intercooling (I've got a spare Cosworth Sierra one here (was destined for the BMW))?
Gearbox? (I'm assuming that it would just about take it, after all people put the sixes on them).
What else?

This has stemmed from the fact that no 911's projects are showing up yet, and those that do are too many £££'s or not really worth doing, therefore thought this could be a bit of fun without breaking the bank: plus the car is going to be stripped out in the early summer for paint anyway, which will include dropping the mechanics for panel access.

Bit bonkers I know, but there's not a lot happening on the forum at the moment, so why not kick it around for fun?

davidppp · Post by **davidppp** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:34 am

NIce idea, Barry.

FWIW the 1.7/1.8L crank is by far the better bet, the 2L is only an offset ground 1.7..but the rods may be an issue, dpending on BMEP, and engine management set up...

The set up I might try would be the stock manifolding bigger injectors and megasquirt for fuel and spark..

But, why bother?

For a bit more money and much less time you can go 6 cylinder..

Kind regards
David

hot66 · Post by **hot66** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:16 pm

Barry, have a good look around the VW sites. Plenty of supercharged motors out there ( mainly the USA)

Have a look on www.shoptalkforums.com

hot66 · Post by **hot66** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:20 pm

look who was selling one earlier this year

http://www.volkszone.com/VZi/showthread ... percharger

bit of info at the bottom of the thread too

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:30 pm

Thanks James/David.

David, my initial thought was that it would probably be a bit less complicated than the issues surrounding going six cylinder, plus my basic engine seems to be a good solid one: spot on compressions, running clean and pulling well. Given the low cost of the superchargers, and the fact that most of the parts are fabricatable/makeathomeintheworkshopable (

), its difficult to see where the costs are coming from:

Charger
Raw materials for brackets, manifolds, air filtering, pulleys.
Belt tensioning, and modding alternator drive.
Fuelling: I reckon low tech. SU carb, if possible: keep it simple!
Belts
Gauges: boost, cylinder head temp.
Compression drop? Depends on boost: I suspect that at the boost I'm thinking of (6-8psi) the engine would be fairly safe anyway, but if so, either via head spacing or piston change.

I would much prefer a six cylinder soundtrack, but TBH you've probably got £1500 min for a reasonable engine complete, plus the extra parts (total £2500+ ?): not only that, it would be quite fun having something a bit different. I'm not looking for mega-boost, just a reasonable increase in torque from low down. I've always fancied supercharging something, as I tend to be a 'low revver, driving-wise', plus its quite a period mod.

The other thing with the charging is that an awful lot of the work can be done with the car on the road, with (as far as I can see) the charger and alternator drives being the only parts that require the engine to be out: therefore car can stay useable for most of the time.

At the very least, the investigation is always the fun part of these things

.

davidppp · Post by **davidppp** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 2:13 pm

Yes, if you make no charge for your time...

FWIW I reckeon the essential bits for the six install are
Oil tank..500 new OEM..
Spark box 150
Pipes..100
Front Cooler..50
Modded tin..50 or less.
fuel pump for carbs..50
rev counter.100
Manifolds 400

Now if one applied the same logic to that list, you can make almost all of them yourself..

The finished car would be worth much more IMHO, more relaible etc

Kind regards
David

impmad2000 · Post by **impmad2000** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:01 pm

I used to have a Volumex 2ltr Lancia Beta. A great car; the super just gave the thing oodles of torque.
Megasquirt will take care of the fuelling, ignition off the crank via a Ford EDIS ignition (distributorless and fully mapable via the megasquirt).
EDIS £25 scrap yard
Megasquirt <£100 DIY
Some injectors, some raw material to incorporate the injectors into the manifold. EFI already ? otherwise you'll need to uprate the fuel pump.
and a little help from some friends

Sounds like a great project
Tim

Gary71 · Post by **Gary71** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:09 pm

Go on Barry do something different!!

David is probably right about the six conversion, but hey, that's been done!

I stuck a Corrado VR6 in my Mk2 Golf many years ago at the time everyone else was doing the 2 litre 16v, so I'm probably not one to recommend sticking with a four pot!

I do like supercharging though, but the note of a six does have something......so maybe a supercharged six? Best of both...

Now I'm confused....

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:48 pm

You're trying to backrupt me, Gary

.

I agree, the sound of the six is hard to beat: I just fancy something a bit different, plus I suspect the cost will be a bit more suitable at the moment

.

moggy · Post by **moggy** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:47 pm

I gotta disagree

the sound of a supercharged flat 4 is a much sexier sound than a plain old flat six, especially if the flat 4 is a big thumper like a 2.4l or bigger.

I've built a few supercharged type4 motors now:

2.4litre with Eaton M45 and blow thru 48mm Dells
2litre with Eaton M45 and single blow thru 48mm Dell
2.4litre With Eaton M62, chargecooler and full engine management

the last one I still have in my bug:

I was going to put it in my 914 but as I plan on racing the 14 in historic rally's I can't due to regs

Shame as it really is crying out for a car which can handle as well as the engine performs (+200bhp) and the 914 would have been ideal. The engine is based on a stock 2L bottom end with 103mm B&Ps and knocks out about 180ftlb at 2500rpm up to a max of well over 200bhp somewhere around 5500.

If you want my advice supercharge it. It's a lot simpler than you think. Check out my yahoo group to see some detailed step by step pics of the creation of things like the mounts and inlet manifolds etc.

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/blownbugs/

You'll also find some who've supercharged with the standard 914 cooling.

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:03 pm

That's fantastic, Moggy, just the thing (and reasssurance) I was after!

Update: I've registered with the group, just waiting to be 'let in'

Gilbert '71 T · Post by **Gilbert '71 T** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:22 pm

Can't offer any advice but i think this is an awesome idea.

especially when you consider the money that can be poured into bigger Type 4's it's incredible how much you can spend on them
Go Barry

moggy · Post by **moggy** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:10 pm

Barry wrote:That's fantastic, Moggy, just the thing (and reasssurance) I was after!

Update: I've registered with the group, just waiting to be 'let in'

Just passed you Barry (and all the others). Let me know if there's any way I can help you if you're serious on travelling this road.

Cheers

Moggy

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:29 pm

Thanks Moggy: I'll start with the research, and go from there, have to say though, there's nothing so far to put me off

.

hot66 · Post by **hot66** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:41 pm