BIB5566

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knapmann
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Re: BIB5566

Post by knapmann »

stretch wrote:Have you done the 30 second fuel test from the return off of the MFI pump as specified in the workshop manual. ?
The pressure on the fuel filter housing may be a problem. Was on mine.
shite. I couldnt find any reference to where to take the reading from so I did it from the inlet side of the filter. Which is stupid because its the flow from the filter through the MFI pump that matters. I checked the filter a while ago and it looked fine but I will buy a new filter regardless and retest on the return side. Its only going to go down from 750ml/30sec if anything I need to put the pressure gauge in on the return side anyway.

Thanks for pointing out my error!
stretch
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Re: BIB5566

Post by stretch »

Do the check first. That little filter the size of your thumb is about £90 quid from Porsche...! :shock:
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deano
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Re: BIB5566

Post by deano »

knapmann wrote: I used some plastic colour rejuvinating stuff to get my door handles looking good again, before and after below
Looking great!

Your door handles look good - what rejuvinating stuff did your use? do you have to remove the remaining paint first?

I've just removed my interior handles to refurb (including drilling out one bolt from the back, and to reshape the arm rest above the handle) and had intended to spray paint them with a satin black all-purpose Plastikote paint.

- there is zero paint left on my handles (medium grey plastic) and the cups are patchy - do you think your rejuv stuff will work ?

:cheers:
Dean
1973T Targa MFI 334 met blu- under restoration https://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 28&t=67060
1980 924 Turbo, blu/grn tartan - restored
911hillclimber
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Re: BIB5566

Post by 911hillclimber »

Mine are just as you describe. I'm not sure the handles were painted, just moulded in black plastic.
Be nice to remove the oxidized look, so would like to know what you used too.
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
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Re: BIB5566

Post by deano »

Perhaps some years didn't have the paint over the plastic moulding, but mine definitely do - mine seem to be done just like the painted plastic parts seen in modern Porsches e.g. centre consoles, air vent surrounds, ash tray, door handles, boot release etc). that wear shockingly badly and look like a right old eyesore after a few years of wear and tear!

I'm sure I saw a recommendation for a plastic spray paint on here recently, but I can't find it for the life of me! :blackeye:
Dean
1973T Targa MFI 334 met blu- under restoration https://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 28&t=67060
1980 924 Turbo, blu/grn tartan - restored
knapmann
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Re: BIB5566

Post by knapmann »

911hillclimber wrote:Mine are just as you describe. I'm not sure the handles were painted, just moulded in black plastic.
Be nice to remove the oxidized look, so would like to know what you used too.
I used Polytrol, the 100ml sample pot is more than enough.

https://www.owatroldirect.co.uk/product/polytrol/

I agree that mine were not painted. I believe they were all just moulded black plastic. I guess its possible that in the past people have tried to restore them with paint.
911hillclimber
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Re: BIB5566

Post by 911hillclimber »

Thanks for the details.
G.
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
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knapmann
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Re: BIB5566

Post by knapmann »

Had a great bingo moment today. One of those moments where you've been looking for a fault somewhere for ages and you finally find one.

After doing my fuel flow test last weekend (incorrectly as pointed out above) I repeated it today from the MFI pump return line after the fuel filter. There was no change in the flow, if anything it was a bit higher today at 800ml in 30sec. So closer to spec than before.

After this I fitted my new inline fuel pressure gauge. I bought a decent one as I want a reliable reading and I'm going to leave it in place. Well I put it in thinking my pressure might be low so as it climbed towards 10psi with the pump running I was happy. Then it got to 12, then 15 then all the way round to 18 and off the charts so to speak. This was not so good in one way but in another, the gauge has paid for itself already. So far I had learned that I had decent if not perfect flow, and that my pump can easily put out the PSI required. But clearly there was a problem with the return line somewhere. Blowing down the return pipe I could hear bubbles, it seemed OK. What I didn't know until I read up on it is what you all probably know already in that there is a spring loaded pressure release valve in the return line fitting on the filter housing. I know what I'm going to find before I find it, a stuck shut valve....

Lots of working the valve back and forth, lots of injector cleaner and sprays of every variety wasn't making much progress. It would move back and forth but would stick in whatever position it was pushed to. It needs heat I thought but not blow torch heat as i think its plastic parts inside. A 10min hairdryer blast and another 10 mins of actuating and it is moving freely and spring back shut.

All fitted back together and I now have a nice steady 9psi with the engine not running. So real progress. God knows what the closed shut return fuelling has been doing to my engine all this time. The fuel pressure may have been >20psi the whole time... or give the fact there was no return flow the pump may have just been dead-heading and sending not much fuel to the MFI pump at all...

Now 9psi is down on what is supposedly target pressure which I'm told is 10-12psi with the engine running. But once the engine is running maybe it will come up. It is however possible that the spring has aged in my valve. I hope not though because they are £150 for a new one... has anyone ever had to replace one of these? Having said that I have read that the return valve opens at 9psi and indeed my valve had "9" stamped into, it the indicates to me that it is working as it should, however I fail to see how I could get a 10-12psi reading on the MFI pump return line if the check valve opens at 9psi? Surely this check valve alone dictates the fuel pressure in the whole circuit (assuming all the filters etc are clean and no blockages in the lines etc...)

In any case I have great hope some much improved engine running over the weekend. I might have to re-correlate everything all over again!

Such is life

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IanM
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Re: BIB5566

Post by IanM »

Glad you've found the problem.
deano
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Re: BIB5566

Post by deano »

Great stuff !

Have never even considered checking my PRV before now - sounds like it might be worth the time to remove it and check to see that it is moving freely, although I vaguely recall that my fuel pressure was about 10% below spec, but then I have never replaced my (overpriced) MFI fuel filter so that might be why! :P
Dean
1973T Targa MFI 334 met blu- under restoration https://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 28&t=67060
1980 924 Turbo, blu/grn tartan - restored
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Re: BIB5566

Post by rhd racer »

Great result, well done. I can't help with the pressure values, but love the DIY approach fixing these things and working it out. Hope you have a good drive tomorrow!
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'You see Paul, hill climbing is like making love to a beautiful woman. You get your motor running, check your fluids, hang on tight and WHOA..30 seconds later it's all over!' Swiss Tony
knapmann
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Re: BIB5566

Post by knapmann »

Good news from yesterday is that my fuel pressure is up to 10.5psi with the engine running.

Bad news is that my car drives basically the same with

1) inconsistent idle speed from rpm dropping low enough to stall one minute to sitting at 2300rpm the next.
2) lots of hesitation from 3-4k rpm

I thought I would try and adjust the MFI main rack 4 clicks richer to see if I can improve the hesitation as I think it is going lean, if no improvement I could try 4 clicks the other way. Unfortunately the engineers of yesteryear have designed what must be the worst possible way of adjusting mixture in the history of mankind. I mean this is an abomination of a design, truly shameful.

How the hell one is supposed to get a screwdriver 2-3" down this virtually inaccessible hole and onto a screw head you cant even see and then try to turn it at all is beyond belief, then one is supposed to count clicks as well!

Its basically impossible to access, impossible to turn, impossible to tell if the driver is even seated in the slotted screw head, impossible to know how far inside the screw head is, and if you are actually turning a screw in there or not, impossible to tell if the clicks you feel are actual clicks or just the driver just hitting random stuff inside the pump. It really is a total farce.

Ive read that there is an access hole through the shroud near the coil mounting bracket... not on my car there isnt!

I've give it a few hours now and I dont think Ive managed to get one discernible click so far.

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Last edited by knapmann on Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
911hillclimber
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Re: BIB5566

Post by 911hillclimber »

My 2.4E engine had a hole in the shroud that allowed a VERY long home made screwdriver to pass through the fan, the shroud and into the pump for adjustment. Everything was in alignment so 'self guiding' to a degree. A similar hole is on your picture for the small exposed screw below where you screw driver is.
Bob Watson made his own from 10swg drawn wire with a file handle on one end, a flat filed into the other for the screw. You have to stop the engine to adjust etc, and he was less than complimentary about the method. Bob could well have cut this access hole himself mind.
You are not the first to moan about it..
73T 911 Coupe, road/hillclimber 3.2L
Lola t 492 / 3.2 hillclimb racer
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Re: BIB5566

Post by 210bhp »

You have a non MFI engine shroud from and S model which doesn’t have the adjustment access hole for a long screwdriver so Porsche did think of your predicament.

Regards
Mike
_____________________________
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Re: BIB5566

Post by 210bhp »

To get the clicks you push the screw in and then turn.

Regards
Mike
_____________________________
73 RS (Sold)
67 S
Mint T (Sold)
996 Turbo (Sold)
73 2.4E (home after 25 years) and Sold again :-(
73T targa (signal yellow project)
1953 Vauxhall Velox
914/6
1963 356B
https://www.mybespokeroom.com/
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