BIB5566

[knapmann]

As promised here's the start of my restoration thread! Im sure you all know the score with these by now.

For those who dont know I recently sold my mint BMW 2002 to chase my 911 dream, and I can finally say Im the very lucky new owner of Paul Martins 1969 911T(S) - I have the S in brackets because Paul had made great strides in rebuilding the car to S spec. If anyone had told me I would have a longhood 911 12 months ago I wouldn't have believed them in a million years, yet many ferries to Northern Ireland later, here I am. I still cant quite believe it. I have so many people to thank and they should all know who they are.

So, I have a car that is in one way 90% restored and in another way 90% apart. Its a restored shell and engine and everything else is in boxes. Lots of unlabeled parts, in mixed up boxes, mixed up further for transporting to England. Now i've restored a few cars before, but i've always had the "luxury" of taking them apart in order to do so. That way you know what everything is and where it goes. Paul obviously knew the car inside out, so labelling everything wasnt necessery for him, unfortunately for me it means I have no idea what 50% of the parts are for. Big stuff is obvious, its the myriad of screws, clips, seals, o rings, gaskets, brackets etc etc that will be a nightmare to figure out. Thats where I hope DDK will come along to save me! But, I would much rather have this and a fantastic rock solid sell than a big welding job on my hands, its clearly been amazingly looked after over the years.

My plan is to basically put the car back together and try and get as close to S spec as possible and use it. Obviously I will be cleaning up parts and replacing the odd thing here and there as needed in order to do so, after all it hasn't moved anywhere i earnest since the early 90s I think. And as always im sure there will be innumerable "whilst im in there" jobs that drag everything out as well.

I always think its great to have an end goal with projects and after googling a lot of Irish Green 911s I found a picture of something I would like to try and achieve so the aim is pretty much like the one pictured below, minus the front overriders...

Naturally as newbie I have lots of questions already...

Paul was clearly building the car to S spec. I have looked everywhere for a guide to tell me what exactly constituted S spec in 1969 but I cannot find any detailed info. Can anyone tell me, or point me to, a list of every S spec detail that the T didnt have. Engine, drive train, exterior, interior, etc etc? Its probable that I wont be able to match everything but one can only try.

Further newbie question

who/where is the best source of used/after market parts? I dont want to be going to Porsche for every unseen clip, screw and bracket I might need.

Thats all for today!

[Gary71]

Best of luck, hard part is out of the way with this car!

For used stuff asking in the wanted section on here normally has people digging in old boxes for you.

New bits do try Porsche first if only to give you a reference price by which other sources can be judged! Often they surprise with a decent price, even for obscure stuff. 10% is normally available as a discount if you ask.

Usual suspects of design911, eurocarparts etc for other bits along with eBay for an astonishing range of random parts.

[210bhp]

Nice buy, lovely colour Irish Green.

Apart from the obvious badging on the engine lid you might consider wide bumper trims, H1 headlights and deep six Fuchs wheels on the exterior to look more like an ‘S’.

The giveaway on the interior with a quick glance is always the red line on the tach for me. It’s different for a T E and an S.

There is a thread on the ‘early S registry’ in the USA which is probably 50 pages or more long by now which lists every tiny detail that makes a MY69 different from any other Porsche 911 MY. It was a crossover point for Porsche not least because of the wheelbase change. So, not only have you to work out your preferred S specification you also need to check if you have the very many ‘one year only’ parts for a MY69. That thread is worth a read because it will give you a list to check against your boxed spares.

I’ll try and post a link to that thread.

Good luck !

Regards
Mike

[210bhp]

Here it is,

https://www.early911sregistry.org/forum ... kes+unique

Engine wise, for starters, you will need an ‘S’ MFI set up rather than carbs (MY 69 first year of MFI) so your quest for ‘S’ spec is goIng to be deep and expensive.

I predict Richard, Kirk and Dave on ddk are going to become some of your best friends as they know all about this 69S stuff in detail.

Regards
Mike

[Cortina]

Mike - MFI set up already there .... all up and running !!

[inaglasshouse]

(I own a 69 S, and love it)

IMO there's only one really important thing: Engine.
Needs MFI + CDI, needs S cams, needs to rev to 7200 rpm. That should give you an honest 180 bhp, and the characteristic revvy power delivery, which is enough to be fun.

Mike's given you the early S thread, which I agree is the best reference for '69 stuff. I have a spec sheet somewhere for T, E, S - will try to dig it out.

Good luck, have fun,
Richard.

[210bhp]

Mike - MFI set up already there .... all up and running !!

Well, that’s a major step in the right direction.
What else comes to mind are the one year only heads/valve/port sizes for the 69MY S.

Interesting project.

Regards
Mike

[Sam]

I agree with all this.

Brakes, suspension, trim etc doesn’t really matter. It just needs to sound and rev like an S to get the S experience.

And what an experience it will be. 68-71 Ss with MFI and the dog leg box are a really special point in the 911s evolution.

[neilbardsley]

Good luck with your project. Stupid question why not run s cams on carbs? Everything I've read about setting up mfis makes me want to never touch them.

Sent from my Redmi 7 using Tapatalk

[hot66]

Because MFI when tuned is brilliant

[yoda]

Because MFI when tuned is brilliant

Amen brother …...

[knapmann]

Nice buy, lovely colour Irish Green.

Apart from the obvious badging on the engine lid you might consider wide bumper trims, H1 headlights and deep six Fuchs wheels on the exterior to look more like an ‘S’.

The giveaway on the interior with a quick glance is always the red line on the tach for me. It’s different for a T E and an S.

There is a thread on the ‘early S registry’ in the USA which is probably 50 pages or more long by now which lists every tiny detail that makes a MY69 different from any other Porsche 911 MY. It was a crossover point for Porsche not least because of the wheelbase change. So, not only have you to work out your preferred S specification you also need to check if you have the very many ‘one year only’ parts for a MY69. That thread is worth a read because it will give you a list to check against your boxed spares.

I’ll try and post a link to that thread.

Good luck !

Regards
Mike

Thanks for the link Ive read that and its very useful, its more leaning towards 69 only parts in general (still very useful) rather than S specific parts though. I wasnt aware for example that the S had different bumper trims, I will have to look at what trims I have. I do have the S outer sill trims I think. I also have S engine, brakes, struts, tacho, gearbox... other than the tacho and the dash badge are there any other interior differences? What about the seats? I have these seats... i have no idea if they are "correct" but they look nice!



and these wheels, am i right in thinking these are flat 6s? they are stamped 15x6

[210bhp]

Sports recaro seats, nice. Need to see better pics to check the year but they look in great nick.
Yes, flat sixes didn’t appear until March 71. Date codes are on the back near the centre hole month/year as 3 or 4 digits.

Regards
Mike

[knapmann]

Straight to it then.

1) Empty car of a million parts in boxes


2) Remove panels as required


3) The brakes will need going through as a minimum so they are coming off, calipers, discs, hubs, covers...


Is this type of corrosion normal on hubs?


4) Hand brakes assembly's


5) Struts... ball joints off (they need replacing as the boots are shot and they are binding up)... then I got stuck... how do I get the strut out? Is there torsion load on the upper strut nut when the car is off the ground? i.e if I undo it will it go bang? I was also expecting to see a bolted in ball joint at the base of the strut but its not to be... I will have to read up on this..


6) Forget the struts for now ill figure them out later, lets tackle something else, look at that wiring, what a dirty horrible tacky mess...gungy ancient electrical tape, eww. This will not do. This loom needs taking out, cleaning up and re-wrapping.


Find out how I get on with this soon! (Unsubtle hint below)

P.S. How the f'ing hell do you get the under dash loom plugs out of the firewall? Do you push out the centres and take out the rubber afterwards or do you prise the whole plug out at once with the rubber which is now rock solid? Or do you resort to cutting the rubber to get them out? (on this note can you get new rubbers?)

PPS - what is this and where does it belong?


PPPS what is this wire for? I dont want to just assume its the wiper motor....

[Gary71]

3) The brakes will need going through as a minimum so they are coming off, calipers, discs, hubs, covers...

http://www.classicarautomotive.co.uk/ Is the go to brake restorer. Even a tight DIY man has seen the value and used them!

Is this type of corrosion normal on hubs?

Not unheard of, but not usual. You could get them blasted, but looking at that one photo the corrosion looks deep so you maybe better off sourcing good used parts.

5) Struts... ball joints off (they need replacing as the boots are shot and they are binding up)... then I got stuck... how do I get the strut out? Is there torsion load on the upper strut nut when the car is off the ground? i.e if I undo it will it go bang? I was also expecting to see a bolted in ball joint at the base of the strut but its not to be... I will have to read up on this..

It won't go bang when you undo it, but depending on how long those top nuts have been done up you may need an impact drive to get them off. The top mount can be released by the three obvious nuts and bolts if you want to leave it on the damper.

Lower ball joints are fun. There's a castellated nut under the weird washer than either needs the special tool, think a Peugeot one fits from memory? or much work with a hammer and chisel.

You can get the strut out by removing the clamp bolt if you don't want to change the balljoint, but it's often a fight.

P.S. How the f'ing hell do you get the under dash loom plugs out of the firewall? Do you push out the centres and take out the rubber afterwards or do you prise the whole plug out at once with the rubber which is now rock solid? Or do you resort to cutting the rubber to get them out? (on this note can you get new rubbers?)

Work from underneath (once you taken the inside half of the connector out) gently push the edge in with a flat bladed screwdriver and eventually it will lip over and once it's started to move it will come out. You can't get new rubbers and the connectors are molded onto the wires. Be careful!

PPS - what is this and where does it belong?

It's something to do with the wipers. It's still connected to my loom, I'll have a look later.

PPPS what is this wire for? I dont want to just assume its the wiper motor....

It's for the blower motor. Wipers are just lots of individual spades.