Advise on front strut inserts

Nine One One · Post by **Nine One One** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:37 pm

Hopefully someone can assist, or offer some advice on front strut inserts.

I know this has been covered before, but things or parts may have changed since some of the earlier posts were posted?

I have a 1971 2.2T fitted with Boge struts. The car passed its MOT today and they advised they were a ‘little’ soft, and could do with changing in the near future.

I am aware that Bilstein do an insert for a Boge body, but do these still need shimming at the base as per Chris’s post?

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=58768&p=534773&hil ... IN#p534773

Do Koni do a similar insert, and if they do, does it have a similar issue re fitment?

Which would be preferable between the two Bilstein or Koni, or do I just go for a Boge insert.

Any advice appreciated and best places to source.

Many thanks

Ian

hot66 · Post by **hot66** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:46 pm

I fitted bilstein inserts into ‘73 3.5” boges many years ago ( there’s a write up on here in the tech section) . I didn’t fit any shims and all was spot on

Nine One One · Post by **Nine One One** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:09 pm

James,
Thanks I saw that post, very informative with excellent picture description.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=18101

When you say 3.5” is that the circumference of the strut housing itself, I see some make mention of a spacer for the disc brakes as well?? Others make mention of 3” as well?

Ian

hot66 · Post by **hot66** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:29 pm

3.5” is the brake calliper mounting bolt distance measured bolt centre to centre . 3.5” is for the S callipers and later. Others are 3” spacing

These days I’m running full bilstein struts and inserts with raised spindles

911hillclimber · Post by **911hillclimber** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:47 pm

Way back I had the original '73T front Boge struts and fitted adjustable Koni inserts, all worked well, just simply dropped in etc.

Later changed them for Bilstein strut/inserts for the 3.5" caliper spacing and A type calipers.

This was 20+ years ago, so things may have changed for availability.
HTH

fetuhoe · Post by **fetuhoe** » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:54 am

A 1972 911T will most likely be fitted with struts that have the 3" caliper mounting.

The Bilstein insert for this type of strut casings will fit without the need for shims - these shims are only needed on 1965-1968 MY struts which use a very different casing design.

If you fit a Bilstein Insert you will need to adjust the front ride height after installation as the front will raise by between 20-30mm.

Sachs also supply a 'gas' insert for the strut casings fitted to your car and are relatively inexpensive and these inserts will also raise ride height but less than the Bilstein.

I am impressed with the 'little soft' definition which seems quite vague.

How is the car handling ? Is it unstable on bumpy roads or does it roll excessively?

Nine One One · Post by **Nine One One** » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:26 am

Chris,

Thanks for the update, on inserts

Basically the car has been in storage, in my garage for 4+ years. We bought a new house in 2013, and it flooded within 8 weeks of moving in. Amongst the other £390,000 repairs the NHBC had to do, they had to remove the exterior walls, which when they went to do so, were not tied together. The walls had to be propped up by scaffolding, before I could get the car out of the garage, which blocked off access to it. So there it remained until the builders and the NHBC argued who was responsible for what...........no damp course, no wall ties, no weep or air vents, no soakaways for roof drainage, no interior damp course, illegal gas pipes coming into the property, outside of the house had to be lowered by two feet to reveal the air bricks buried under ground etc. etc.....................very long story.

Never ever buy a brand new house, and not from a certain National Builder! A House builder of the Year no less!

Keith Sume has seen the house on visits to pick bits up/drop them off.

So in April this year, got the car out!!!

Although started religiously with fresh fuel each time, warmed up properly, it was always spot on. In April it ran like a pig, back fired, popped banged..............tried everything and no joy, so was towed to a garage.

Everything cleaned, out replacement HKZ and new distributor cured the issues. New rebuilt callipers, fresh brake fluid.

On a test drive the car afterwards, it ‘floats’ a bit and is not as positive steering wise, and tends to ‘dig’ in on bends. Car has only done an original 44,000 miles...............its a well known car and some people know it on this site.

5 years in a garage has not done the old girl well, and not an episode to be repeated. Car still looks immaculate though

After nearly 5 years of not using it, I want to get it back out on the road.

Long story to a short question I know.

Ian

hot66 · Post by **hot66** » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:17 am

maybe best to look at the age of the tyres as well before ripping the front end apart

House saga sounds a nightmare

Nine One One · Post by **Nine One One** » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:04 am

House was more than a nightmare.
NHBC are horrendous to deal with and still are.

There is not one piece of legislation that covers them, or builders. You just end up with horrendous legal bills and get nowhere with either. Basically builders take your money and run, and there is nothing you can do about it, and they know it, laughing all the way to the bank with your house price. Even after delays by the NHBC and horrendous build quality by the builders was brought up in Parliament by our MP, neither have faced up to their responsibilities as to why it was built so horrendously.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2 ... 29CA90BAF9

Bit like everything nowadays, seems to some businesses have no scruples or customer care?

911hillclimber · Post by **911hillclimber** » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:18 pm

I suffered a 'bad' house once, the house was for the site foreman who was not liked...
Nowhere as bad as yours though. What happened to quality control in all the companies involved, ie sign-off at certain stages? And the checks for mortgage??

wildtexas · Post by **wildtexas** » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:48 pm

What happened to building control? They were all over us for a handrail that actually complied with their own regs.

Nine One One · Post by **Nine One One** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:26 am

Building control were NHBC themselves (NHBC Building Control) they did (apparently) 5 key stage inspections, found several faults which were then signed off as corrected by the builder. The NHBC agreed they had been- funnily enough, those major faults and then some, were all still present in the house when it was taken apart to rectify the faults that caused the flooding. The more that was removed, the more faults in the construction became apparent.
The site book issued by the NHBC to prove the faults were identified, and who they were signed off by, has mysteriously gone missing. Neither the NHBC or the builder accepting responsibility for owing it, or storing it for safe keeping, should issues such as this arise............funny that.

With Building Control you hear such horror stories of people having to demolish a whole house because its two foot over in the wrong place or the roof is too high., or windows in the wrong place............yet a new build seems to escape such scrutiny?

Trying to get them to apply their warranty and start work took over 3 years, and we are left with a huge legal bill for doing so.......... yet there is nothing in law to cover such poor quality workmanship, no legislation, nothing. As our M.P. said we had more comeback for a dented can of beans than a new build property.

But the thread has digressed and think I will probably go for Bilstein inserts.

Nine One One · Post by **Nine One One** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:39 am

RSJ FOR REAR OF HOUSE held up in the kitchen by door frame and 3” piece of breeze block
https://s26.postimg.cc/3uoryth5l/P1020442.jpg
https://s26.postimg.cc/ivvntnp7d/P1020443.jpg

Bits of roof timber falling off within 8 months

https://s26.postimg.cc/6h8vtd7zt/IMG_4861.jpg

Kitchen demolished to dig floor up, and repair hangers in ceiling joists
https://s26.postimg.cc/axwnehcbd/P1020414.jpg

Which also revealed that the dishwasher plug and caught fire and melted itself to the unit, because the plug was directly behind the appliance (bit illegal)

https://s26.postimg.cc/9bc16x521/P1020384.jpg

When the Cornish stone facade was removed, this is what the breeze block actually looked like behind it, including the missing blockwork and holes!
https://s26.postimg.cc/idvx0c56h/P1010421.jpg
https://s26.postimg.cc/u2zwobyq1/P1010419.jpg

Including foundation breeze blocks just lying in the cavity not even cemented in!

https://s26.postimg.cc/7r23uzx21/IMG_7080.jpg

Or better still - self supporting LINTELS held up by nothing more than fresh air, or the window or door frames themselves! Building Regulations state a minimum of 150mm either side

https://s26.postimg.cc/64hhnbfh5/Screen ... .18.36.png

https://s26.postimg.cc/oy3ak8do9/Screen ... .16.59.png

https://s26.postimg.cc/um9lb5cvt/Screen ... .16.45.png

https://s26.postimg.cc/yhczdxe3t/Screen ... .18.25.png

https://s26.postimg.cc/a0utjh0ih/Screen ... .18.06.png

https://s26.postimg.cc/x3lciczc9/Screen ... .17.39.png

https://s26.postimg.cc/65rfgmmex/Screen ... .17.26.png

https://s26.postimg.cc/j9wztc1m1/Screen ... .17.10.png

Why it flooded, apart from lack of damp course - air vents and weep vents doing nothing!
https://s26.postimg.cc/g9bjzalk9/IMG_7729.jpg

Nice bit of damp coming in - house now 10 weeks old and back door wedged shut through swelling.......

https://s26.postimg.cc/i14iu92d5/Image_13.jpg

This is what was lying under 20mm of scree - should be 40 mm minimum - mars wrappers/crisp packets/mud/screws/nails/twiggs

https://s26.postimg.cc/axwnenk2x/IMG_1127.jpg

911hillclimber · Post by **911hillclimber** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:01 pm

Good grief!
What a mess.
Cannot believe there is no redress to the 'builders' on this build.
Are the other houses built the same?
You must have been checking every brick each day during the build.
Utter cowboys.

Nine One One · Post by **Nine One One** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:01 pm

Graham,

I think others having seen our dilemma and the effort needed to get the NHBC to come and repair something they signed off, and issuing the Building Regulations Compliance Certificate, put them off. There was also the bury your head in the sand syndrome. When we tried to get others onboard for a combined law suit, no one was interested. It was all very, very stressful, and all every organisation did was fail to answer emails, letters, or phone calls, just hoping you would go away. One neighbour even suggested we were ‘blowing things out of all proportion’ and things could never be as bad as we were making out. Caused issues with the neighbours more concerned over their own house values and resale than anything else.

The only thing left ‘original’ on the house after the rebuild are the timber frame, interior walls and the roof!

Are the others the same?..........................a repair bill of circa £390,000, because they did not want to demolish the house and rebuild it, which would have been cheaper, but also sent alarm bells out to every other householder, who knows, but I know what I think.

Funnily enough after our scaffolding all came down, 5 houses suddenly went on the market and all sold within 5 days of being placed on the market...........maybe that explains your question.

DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker