70 S, RHD, Signal Orange, UK->Australia->UK

[inaglasshouse]

Yep, that's about the size of it. I have happily spent a lot more than 25K on the metalwork and paint. But the hours involved were significant, and I think that every hour charged was necessary (bearing in mind my no compromises spec). Also there's no way I could have done it myself to anywhere near the same standard.

But, in expert hands, to build a standard 2.2S is 16 hours disassembly, cleaning and assessment, and 45 hours rebuild.
Obviously there's outsourced machining, MFI and throttle body refurbs, plating, chromating etc to make the cosmetics nice.
And then we have parts....
Of course it may be that you have to replace everything, including the crank, camshafts, pistons, cylinders and all the rods, in which case I can imagine spending 25K total. But I reckon that would be massively unlucky.
If the engine builder is happy to engage and discuss cost-benefit analysis (on an engine for a road not race car, that will do a few thousand miles per year), rather than replacing everything with new bits from Porsche, I just can't get to that number for a "normal" rebuild.

You can laugh at me when this goes wrong, and 25 turns out to be exactly the right number including a second and third rebuild!

[Dougieboy1]

i paid £1.100 for a gearbox and steering rack rebuild by an independent porsche specialist.This included all new bearings and synchros in the box.....

Havent run it yet but no reason to suspect it wont be perfect as the guy who did it is a good 'un - i wont embarrass him here. How does anyone get up to £11,000 for a gearbox rebuild......?

Whilst my engine was in the same ballpark you mention, it actually included buying the engine as i didnt have one.....and it is a 'special' engine but that is another story.....

I remember hearing once about a merc garage charging £25 to rip an oil change reminder out of the service book and stick it on the door frame, apparently because the minimum job charge was 15 mins - so £25 to rip YOUR OWN STICKER out of your OWN BOOK and stick it on your OWN DOOR FRAME .

[911hillclimber]

Just to add my experiences..
Bob Watson said a bad 2.4 mech inj engine would take 40 hours to strip, clean and measure and prepare for the re build, and 40 hours to build ready to run, back in the car.
I've had 3 915 boxes rebuilt, each cost 2 to 2.5k and they were bad.

Finding a straight indie is tricky, but a trip to the Lake District is my only choice.

Classic parts are very expensive, but 11k for a box!

Great project, good read.

[hot66]

My engine and box have both been done by Mike Bainbridge up in the lakes ... nothing like the numbers being mentioned here. Mike isn’t always the quickest and he’s a one man band so you need to appreciate what that entails but his work is spot on

[tangerineT]

Just to add my experiences..

Classic parts are very expensive, but 11k for a box!

Great project, good read.

Yeah ,that's what i was quoted Graham

I almost passed out .. must've been my 16 year old vw transporter giving the impression I was loaded !?

I chose another indie whose final bill was about £400 less than his estimate so I take that to mean he's honest ,,couldve charged me the full estimate plus a bit

[inaglasshouse]

By the way, while we are slandering engine builders... as well as the pricing anomalies, my research (talking to customers) showed up various cases of what I would broadly call theft - taking hard-to-find parts from one customer’s car and using them for a more urgent job earlier in the queue, then hoping to back fill by the time the later engine / box / etc was needed.
So “definitely not a crook” also became one of my selection criteria....
Caveat Emptor, as they say in most areas of the motor trade.

[tangerineT]

By the way, while we are slandering engine builders... as well as the pricing anomalies, my research (talking to customers) showed up various cases of what I would broadly call theft - taking hard-to-find parts from one customer’s car and using them for a more urgent job earlier in the queue, then hoping to back fill by the time the later engine / box / etc was needed.
So “definitely not a crook” also became one of my selection criteria....
Caveat Emptor, as they say in most areas of the motor trade.

Yes ,,very naughty !!

[911hillclimber]

I saw it happen about 20 years ago, a dealer (Porsche Indie) sell a car with door pockets missing and such like as a project/restoration car.

Later, the new owner asked if the Indie knew where he might get some door pockets.....you know he found some a week or so later, rare as hen's teeth, so a tad expensive.
Fitted a dream.
The Indie boasted about his skills.
Must happen in all walks of the classic car industry.

[Jonny Hart]

I think the price of gearbox parts is the problem. My SC gearbox rebuild was done by MB and the labour content was very reasonable at less that £1k. I did treat myself to a Quaife LSD (£800) but the other bits need came to £3000! Apart from standard wear, it had spun a bearing but that's all.

Yep, £4800 all in.

[Darren65]

As Jonny highlights it depends on what's being quoted for and rarely are the figures bandied around like for like.....my first full gearbox build cost £2,200 which included supplying and fitting a ZF LSD, one of the best value jobs I've ever had done.....my last box cost circa £7K but that was mostly specialist parts and labour cost was again very reasonable. Mike Bainbridge, first class specialist.

Not trying to defend specialists but I would much rather be quoted worst case scenario which includes all machining and parts and VAT etc. When I had my first engine built Nick Fulljames clearly broke down all the likely costs so I knew where I stood and the labour element was less than a third iirc, the final invoice was less than quoted.......agree £25K sounds absolutely absurd but without knowing what that includes who knows?......I have no issue paying £75 an hour for an excellent specialist but would never tolerate being ripped off at every turn.

Obviously not suggesting Richard would ever cut corners with his wonderful restoration but invariably the issues people seem to have are when the 'wrong' specialists are used, when jobs are parted out to multiple specialists or when things are part done on a budget, I guess you pay your money and take your choice.....I think there's a mass of information and recommendations on here to make good informed decisions.

Incidentally the labour cost for my latest engine rebuild was £2,700.

Cheers,

[911hillclimber]

It is good we share these experiences and detail what was done for what.
My boxes needed every bearing, synchro and what have you in a 3.2 sport box including a case sleeve for the spun bearings, 2.5k from Mike 4 years ago. Parents from Porsche where v expensive..

I blew my hill climb 3.2 apart and parts (and machining via Redtec) came to £4.3k, I built the engine up myself. Bob found me a piston and cylinder of the right height, so done on a budget.

We have desirable and expensive toys.

[inaglasshouse]

Hi Darren

Of course, agree completely. I’ve no issue with prizing the padlock off my wallet when I’m comfortable that I know where the money is going. And I’m sure some engine builds are a justifiable 25k.

Most of all I agree with you that a good specialist is absolutely worth finding (and treating with respect!)

Point of my anecdotes (if there was a point) was not to encourage folks to aim for the cheapest option regardless. My observations are:
- there is less of a correlation between hourly rate and expertise than might be expected. Barry is perhaps the best example of this : absolute expertise and the lowest hourly rate I found.
- when you dig a bit, and ask questions, some specialists will make clear what the cost is, and others won’t. I’m an annoying customer who wants to know details, and expects a detailed discussion including the “is this actually worth doing” type of chat. In the world of engines there seem to be lots of ways of spending money that have questionable engineering validity.
- as always, relationships are important. In some cases different customers had completely different experiences with the same specialist. The difference seemed to stem from the strength of the personal relationship. Half of which is down to the customer. I know you are exceptionally good at the relationship side, and I’m sure that’s one reason you’ve achieved such great builds.

Cheers, Richard.

[Darren65]

Thanks Richard,

I actually love the way you're going about your build, thinking outside the norm and doing things your way .....

....being less clever my criteria was far simpler......can they demonstrate they're excellent and knowledgable in their field, are they honest and straightforward and can I trust and work with them! I guess I made lucky choices

Looking forward to your next installment

Cheers,

[inaglasshouse]

Hi Darren,
If I remember correctly I mainly copied you when choosing Barry.
And, as you know, if the premier expert in the field hadn't retired gracefully, I would have used the same painter .
So I'm not claiming any innovation here.
Thanks for reading!
Cheers, Richard.

[tangerineT]

I hope this doesn't upset anyone but whilst talking about dealers and indies who aren't entirely honest I wondered how many of you lot would've expected honesty and maybe some transparency from the main dealers

Id expect ALL porsche parts to fit the intended model for which we bought them

If it's in a porsche bag it shouldn't be a repro bit !??! ....(ie could've bought for 1/2 the cost)

I don't mind if they say that a certain part is currently not being made but they declare that they're supplying a xyz manufactured part instead

I've bought quite a few bits from my opc which haven't fitted or where the repro would've been a better option or they try to supply you a mid 90s wing for a 70s car because the computer can't say no to a sale

I'm not one of those dearer must be better types ,,nor a cheaper must be better value but when I buy a genuine part from my dealer I sort of expect it to be the best fit ,quality , etc or at least be told about any possible fit problems etc before handing over my cash

I know that all manufacturers work to budgets so when theyre shopping around for specific parts I'm guessing they don't automatically go for the dearer suppliers!! I guess in many cases they go for the cheapest


Some of the expensive rubbish I've bought beggars belief

like the heater flap wire ,,,, £85 plus vat from porsche for a piece of wire worth about a quid in real terms

Honestly



Just my 2p worth ,,,oh plus porsche tax etc ,,,so that's about a tenner !