Rear brake problems

[Jeremy 356 (Jez 356)]

Hello

Unfortunately, I had to walk away from it !!!! Even with everything in place, the brake shoes still will not fit inside the drum !!!! I have stared at it for hours and tried all sorts of adjustments and for such a simple job it has been extremely frustrating. Quite embarrassing that I cannot sort this, as I have built engines in the past !

I have had a go at sorting the seals for the hub, as this has started leaking on the 'good' side so thought I should do that too !! However when opened up, there were parts missing that I had in the pack, so I have added them too ! Not sure if I should but it seemed necessary. However that is still leaking even after the new seals are in place and everything is cleaned up.

So I have walked away and will try to recover before giving it another go ! Worst part is that this is the good side and I have not even started on the side that had the leak in the first place !!!

I just hope that if I take it all apart and put it back together in a week or so then whatever was wrong that I cannot see, goes back together properly!

Thanks for asking anyway

Regards Jeremy

[louis356]

Pictures, pictures, pictures.

Someone might be able to see what you are having problems with rather than imagining it. If you can do it, it's sometimes hard to see how people can get it wrong.

I'm building an A35 race car and the PO had installed the complete rear brakes upside down. I didn't notice as it all looked OK until I tried to improve their poor performance!!

Pictures are worth their weight in gold.

Good luck and Keep the faith!! (haven't heard that one for a long time!!)

[POR68]

It can happen like that Jeremy. The rear axle seals are not the easiest job but the US-based Registry and the Workshop manual have some useful resources/guidelines. It is important to try to break the job down into sections and do each part carefully and correctly. If one seal is leaking it was always going to happen that the other followed it, probably sooner rather than later. That's old cars. There are quite a few seal kits and some are not correct, especially the O-ring size.

Please put up a photo of the brake shoes in place as that is the easier job. Then we can help more I believe.

[Merv]

How goes it Jeremy? An you add a photo?

[simon james]

Jez,
Top tip for you.....
You might find that a previous owner has the handbrake adjusted too far.
Back the cable right off at the front of the car, under the petrol tank and I think your problem will disappear.
Here speaketh the voice of experience.

Oh and oil seal wise. The VW ones will fit but will last about forty seconds. Buy proper Porsche ones off PRS, the hardened washer is the secret. I have been seepage and dribble free for five years now...
In my VW days we used to get cheapo kits off German and Swedish which needed replacing regularly!

[Merv]

Nice thinking on the hand/parking brake Simon.

[Jeremy 356 (Jez 356)]

I have spoken with a friend - Ian and we also came to that conclusion - I plan to have another go this weekend with the handbrake backed off. I have also complete the seal change and think it has worked but will only know when it is all back together with the main nut torqued up as I think this must tighten the seal too ?

Thanks and I will try to keep you updated on progress

Regards Jeremy

[Jeremy 356 (Jez 356)]

Hi sorry for the long time to get back !!

I have finally got the drum onto that rear brake - woop woop !

It turns out that someone has added some weld to the back of the solid bar that goes across the top with the large spring - this was not allowing the new shoes to come together enough for the drum to fit over the top. I have had to take a little bit off and that did the trick. I suspect this might be a way of getting more handbrake pressure on the shoes without changing the cables ?

So I am now struggling with the original side that sprouted the leak in the first place, as one of the bolts holding the seal cover on will not budge - all traditional methods tried within my limited options. Heat and lots of WD40 - I will borrow the electric torque wrench again from my mate as I need to tighten the large nut on the good side anyway and see if that will budge it before rounding the head off.....

Any other tricks always appreciated !

All the best
Regards Jeremy

[Jeremy 356 (Jez 356)]

So I had finally got all the brakes back together and borrowed my mates high torque gadget to tighten up the nuts - however one of the nuts kept turning and it then became evident that the thread had stripped and the drive shaft would need to be replaced ............

So I managed to find a well priced drive shaft - thanks to a very helpful person - as commercial prices were ridiculous

However I am not confident in taking gear boxes apart so I had to pay for the diff to come out and all the brakes were taken apart and the replacement drive shaft installed - which means that I might as well have paid someone to do all the work in the first place...........

I am glad I have had a go and know all about the brakes now but I have missed a whole summer of driving the car which is not what I wanted.

Anyway, thanks for the support and I am now just driving the car with a much quieter gearbox to bed it all in before taking it to Goodwood in a few weeks !! Something to look forward to !

KTF Regards Jeremy

[POR68]

A "happy' ending Jeremy, in some ways. Knowledge gained, but the stripping of the thread on the drive shaft stud was not planned! I always like to use a hand held (digital) torque wrench so I can feel things happening. Hope you get a few good weeks of driving under your belt now.

Cheers

Merv

[roy mawbey]

Jeremy,

What a game you have had with those brakes. I presume the thread was stripped by the unit you used to tighten the nut. When I first did the job many years ago of removing the back drums I made the correct sized breaker bar to fit the 36mm socket, massive bit of kit with the extension tube to extend the length. Then read the factory book and applied as near as possible the 350 ftlb torque by the stand on tube position I marked on it.

Then a number of years later bought some new split pins and had to replace an hydraulic pipe and brake cylinder and had seen so many times on forums 400ftlb must be used for the back nuts. I ummd and arrd a lot, before deciding to up the value from 350ftlb factory specs. I waited for the ominous crack sound as I did it. Nothing happened though. But ever since have wondered what value would destroy the thread.

As you say, you have learn't so much having a go on that job. I am interested to know was it possible to set exactly 400ftlb on the tool you used?? Would you use that tool again?

Thanks for your honest answers, you must have had nightmares over that. I presume the nut had not cracked though as they always advise using new ones. The half shaft thread did show damage??

Roy

[Jeremy 356 (Jez 356)]

Hi Roy I think I should have tightened as much as possible by hand and then just used it to torque up - I think I used it too early. I am glad to have got my hands dirty and now know all about the workings and what issues I have to rectify.

However on the weekend I took it to Goodwood and when decelerating I could head knocking sounds from the gearbox or brakes ? Also at low speed some clicking sounds - I am going to have to get it looked at I think. Also it did also feel a bit 'snakey' at the rear, so I am suspecting that the tracking / alignment must be out too - it used to be very stable in all conditions before

The best bit is the gear box other than the intermittent noises is so much quieter which is a major improvement !

KTF

Regards Jeremy
1957 356A T1

[Jeremy 356 (Jez 356)]

Hi Roy I think I should have tightened as much as possible by hand and then just used it to torque up - I think I used it too early. I am glad to have got my hands dirty and now know all about the workings and what issues I have to rectify.

However on the weekend I took it to Goodwood and when decelerating I could head knocking sounds from the gearbox or brakes ? Also at low speed some clicking sounds - I am going to have to get it looked at I think. Also it did also feel a bit 'snakey' at the rear, so I am suspecting that the tracking / alignment must be out too - it used to be very stable in all conditions before

The best bit is the gear box other than the intermittent noises is so much quieter which is a major improvement !

KTF

Regards Jeremy
1957 356A T1