Tyre Alternatives

[Kenyon]

Got it! Infographic nailed it. Cheers

[Dougal Cawley]

I have continued my job as a tyre trader as i felt the option of chucking it all in and becoming an artist wasn't there for me

[Winston Teague]

As that type of artist you may need a little finessing, and ultimately you may not be that successful, but as an illustrator.......masterpiece.

[Nige]

I like those handbags with little people inside

[S.J.Szabo]

Counterpoint:

I realize that with 4 1/2" wheels, the choices are fewer, but for a little more meat on the road, one could run 175-185s.

Now, I grant you that using a 356 as a "driver" for 30 some years makes me an odd duck, so it should come as no surprise that I generally run the cheapest tires that have an "H" speed rating and "A"s for heat (American markings... are they different over there?). My T1 A has disc brakes, so I run 5 1/2s, and I can handily fit 195/65 15s that I buy used when I can. The larger dia. helps on the hiway. I look for at least a "400" wear index too.

This is pursuant to my personal philosophy that too much grip (and too much money on it) spoils the ride. I like a little action and pricey tires don't add anything (including mileage) to the fun. And when I wear them out, the replacements are easy on the wallet.

Just a thought...

[Dougal Cawley]

Counterpoint:

I realize that with 4 1/2" wheels, the choices are fewer,

No - actually there is a lot of choice http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/porsche-356 . But more importantly there are some absolutely excellent options. Both the Pirelli Cinturato and the Michelin XAS are just completely perfect for a 356 there is no need for other options.

Now, I grant you that using a 356 as a "driver" for 30 some years makes me an odd duck, so it should come as no surprise that I generally run the cheapest tires that have an "H" speed rating and "A"s for heat (American markings... are they different over there?).

I'm sorry i find this theory completely topsey turvey. In my mind because i use my classics as a daily drivers i want it to be as enjoyable as possible. i find that theory as incomprehensible as the chap that says i just want the cheapest tyres i can get; it is just for the wife to drive the kids to school. The theory that because you actually drive a car, it should have cheap tyres on it is completely the wrong way round. If you drive a car surely you want the best tyres you can get. You wouldn't just put cheap tyres on a modern car would you?

I can think of 2 circumstances under which i would say yes just put the cheapest tyres on:-
1/ "i just hate this Austin Allegro, it handle like a pig no matter what you do, I think i'm going to sell it or scrap it." - what the heck just put some cheap tyres on it.
2/ "I never drive the car" - what the heck just put some cheap tyres on it.

S.J.Szabo - sorry it isn't my intention to have a go at you. but if you are driving the car a lot i feel you would enjoy it more with some suitable rubber with a more suitable carcass design. and if you drive it a lot you will actually get your moneys worth out of a good set of tyres.

My suggestion would be to try a set of the good stuff again. i think you will be surprised how much nicer it feels to drive.

[roy mawbey]

Dougal,

Last year I bought a single Firestone F560 tyre from Longstone because one of my set of five tyres had a puncture. You advised at the time the Firestone prices had risen but were still cheaper than the top well known makes you offer for 356. ( good service by Longstone on- line purchase and excellent delivery to my house. Worked great.

This was a case of do I buy one tyre to use as a spare or a set of five XAS for example. When I took the punctured tyre originally to Quickfit they advised they could not repair even though the screw I picked up was within the area for repair. He said the screw was long and he could not remove it

One receipt of the new Firestone F560 I took wheel and tyre with puncture to the tyre clinic I bought the full set from around 8 years ago. He removed the tyre and the short!!! screw and said repair no problem. He fitted the new tyre with the innertube you supplied me. Then repaired the old tyre as another spare. Now I have few questions for you?

1). Nearly 50 years ago I was driving my 356 on Michelin X tyres and did so for years. I always had inner tubes fitted. Then there were discussions about the wheel well not being deep enough?? on 356 wheels to accept tubeless tyres. When I first started using Firestone the guy said the valve is important and inner-tubes are not really necessary.

2). So on this set of Firestone tyres I have run now for around 8 years only the tyre I bought from Longstone has one fitted. So, are inner-tubes really necessary you advise they can be supplied but how many buy them?

3). My car is driven all year round regularly but only with normally shortish drives. Its mainly kept dark in the garage and the tyre walls have no cracking but how long should a tyre that's well within the wear factor last or be used? I have heard of what seems short times to me.

4). I bought the Firestone tyres because they look good on the car were mid range in price and I also don't drive these days that fast. Are they made elsewhere these days?

Roy

[Ashley James]

Rims suitable for tubeless tyres have raised circumferential ribs to hold the bead of the tyre agains the rim in the event of a puncture. Without these ribs it isn't really safe to go without an inner tube because you only have to bash a kerb for instant deflation and the tyre to come away from the rim.

FWIW I'd never fit oversize tyres to old cars if I could avoid it, simply because it upsets the suspension and makes the steering heavier. By the time the 165x15 £39 Mud and Snow Nankangs have lost grip, the back end of my 356c is trying to overtake the front, so I'll wear them out before changing them. They seem quite good, although I'm sure Michelin or Pirelli might feel slightly better.

[S.J.Szabo]

Mr.Cawley

<it isn't my intention to have a go at you>

No problemo; it’s not like I shouldn’t expect such reactions to such a rebellious notion.

However, I stand behind my philosophy. Having done expensive and cheap tires on all my drivers (young and old), one lesson has become clear to me: having long been a Snow Dog, I realize that traction, i.e. the mechanical grip of the tires on the road, have nothing whatsoever to do with the “handling” of the car. The worst you can say about its (traction's) lack, is that it brings one face-to-face with the basic nature of that vehicle’s behavior. And as a long-time fan of rear-engined cars, I learned to anticipate and play off of oversteer to use its dynamics to my advantage. Sideways, even at slow speeds, is not necessarily a mistake.

So, if I’ve tended properly to the car’s fundamentals, the tires don’t matter so much. And it is not so farfetched to believe that there's not really a "night and day" difference between rich or poor tires, if one discounts the super-soft (and short lived) compounds.

Which brings me to the obvious question: Have you ever run cheap tires? How about in the snow? The regular practice thereof may lead one to different conclusions.

Now, in light of the above, I should also favor skinny tires, but no one is perfectly logical, or logically perfect. I have long run 195s on the small cars because it seems to me to be just the right amount of rubber (tho the Z loves 205s), no matter how inexpensive. And then there is the bonus of a little bit more diameter for some “overdrive” effect (I still lament the wide disappearance of the 70 series tire). The “slower off the line” issue has never interested me, which is just as well, as most anything with tires today can outrun a 356… in a straight line, that is.

Yeah, between the footprint and the small dia. alloy strng. wheel, there is some extra low-speed effort involved, but I don’t do much parallel parking, and when driving, the feedback from the ZF rack is beautiful. Besides, the slow stuff makes for a good upper body workout and keeps one slim and handsome.

In any case, I don’t expect that the notion will be everyone’s cup ‘o tea, but its not an idea unworthy of consideration.

Or so it seems to me.

[Dougal Cawley]

Dougal,

Last year I bought a single Firestone F560 tyre from Longstone because one of my set of five tyres had a puncture. You advised at the time the Firestone prices had risen but were still cheaper than the top well known makes you offer for 356. ( good service by Longstone on- line purchase and excellent delivery to my house. Worked great.

Thank you we do our best

This was a case of do I buy one tyre to use as a spare or a set of five XAS for example. When I took the punctured tyre originally to Quickfit they advised they could not repair even though the screw I picked up was within the area for repair. He said the screw was long and he could not remove it

One receipt of the new Firestone F560 I took wheel and tyre with puncture to the tyre clinic I bought the full set from around 8 years ago. He removed the tyre and the short!!! screw and said repair no problem. He fitted the new tyre with the innertube you supplied me. Then repaired the old tyre as another spare.

If you are near us we do all that work free, with the advantage of being able to get your hands of the tyres we sell and hopefully be able to see and feel the difference in quality and understand why i feel it is worth encouraging people to spend more on tyres.

1). Nearly 50 years ago I was driving my 356 on Michelin X tyres and did so for years. I always had inner tubes fitted. Then there were discussions about the wheel well not being deep enough?? on 356 wheels to accept tubeless tyres. When I first started using Firestone the guy said the valve is important and inner-tubes are not really necessary.

I think when the Michelin X first came out it was a tube type tyre. the Firestone F560 is a tubeless tyre, but because it is 80% profile you can also fit an inner tube if you want to.
Up untill a point all tyres had inner tubes. then they developed a way of sealing the inside of the tyre so it could be run tubeless on normal rims. This was only a short period, before the rims were then improved with the addition of the safety rib. I would suggest if you don't have the safety rib then fit an inner tube. also if in doubt fit a tube. http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/cl ... nner-tubes However don't fit an inner tube in anything less than a 70% profile tyre (so don't put a tube in a 195/65R15)

2). So on this set of Firestone tyres I have run now for around 8 years only the tyre I bought from Longstone has one fitted. So, are inner-tubes really necessary you advise they can be supplied but how many buy them?

When in doubt, fit a tube. However i recommend strongly against having a 8 year old tyre on one side of an axle and a new one on the other side. particularly when it is the F560, because these tyres are no longer made by Firestone. so not only will the ageing process give different levels of grip on each side of your car, but the difference in build quality will also contribute. when you slam the anchors on you want both tyres to slow you down the same amount.

3). My car is driven all year round regularly but only with normally shortish drives. Its mainly kept dark in the garage and the tyre walls have no cracking but how long should a tyre that's well within the wear factor last or be used? I have heard of what seems short times to me.

when they are 10 years old they are knackered, but when they have been on your car for 5 years they are not working as well. the rate of deterioration dramatically increases after they are first driven.

4). I bought the Firestone tyres because they look good on the car were mid range in price and I also don't drive these days that fast. Are they made elsewhere these days?

yes they are made else where, no longer made by Firestone, i beleive. the fashion side of things is personal. i wouldn't want all that big writing on the side wall.

Dougal

[roy mawbey]

Thanks Dougal for those answers. The new F560 I bought from Longstone is used as a spare in place under my front lid. I think you are right within a couple of years all being well, I will get them changed to probably the Michelin. Thanks to both of you regarding the use of inner-tubes. I don't think my rims have the 'bead ' to hold the tyre in place they are original 59 wheels.

Maybe you are correct the ' X' tyre was not tubeless. I thought at the time in the 60's all radial tyres were. I was used to crossply tyres even radials were new to me!! Likewise the very low pressure in the front tyres using the Michelin in the 60's sort of worried me a little. I seem to remember using 18psi in the front.

Roy

[Adrian3]

well, i have to admit that i'm with Mr Szabo on this one.....i think this


is what the rear of a 356 does when it corners and its instability made worse by any loading/unloading of the gearbox (change in throttle) which causes the camber of both wheels to change....so, i think that, due to the crapness of the design, tyre choice will make very little difference

i just bought 4 Vreds for my 912, realised i made a huge mistake, returned the 2 i hadn't fitted, so if anyone wants 2 unused Vreds (185/70 x 15) in Surrey for a discount, pm me

as far as i can see, the only reason people buy these old-pattern tyres is for aesthetic correctness....the reason they're so expensive is because they're made in such small quantities and because people will pay over the odds for that correctness

don't fret over the demise of 70 series tyres, Mr Szabo, there's loads of 65's about and which use modern technology at a third of the price and, what with the poor quality of present-day rubber, makes much better sense to me and is the way i'm going.

[S.J.Szabo]

Right you are, Mr.Rendle; one can still find 65s alright and they are my current standard. But I still miss the extra dia., slight as it might be,as its good for a couple-three mph on the road, not to mention the controlled sidewall flex.

By the by, I think your sketch sells the point very well. It also illustrates just why some drivers are fitted with fat front sway bars with (in my case) a Virtual Z Bar on the rear.

While I'm no hater, isn't ever so slightly pathetic that the closer one gets to a solid rear axle, the better the swings work.

Just a thought...

[Dougal Cawley]

Well S J Szabo & Adrian Rendle

Obviously i think you are completely wrong. and i am not going to convince you the other way. However that is part of the fun of a forum.

Can i suggest that you should not fit inner tubes in a 65% or lower tyre. 70% and full profile is fine but lower than that should not run tubes

[S.J.Szabo]

Mr.Cawley:

No worries; one should expect as much from someone who sells expensive tires to fellows for whom the price/value calculation is meaningless, for a living.

But among us hoi polloi, it all comes down to bang-for-the-buck, and those CN-36s that I used to love, make no greater contribution to "handling" (or safety) than most of today's cheap tires (of course, provided they meet the criteria I noted above). Not to mention that I can buy a set and a half for the price of but one single CN-36 today.

When you're shoeing a driver, the operant issue is using them up and buying more, not replacing them simply because they got too old in the garage.