Pads and MC

[gridgway]

Thanks will give it a go whilst it's not on the road.

I don't really want to pull the MC out to see what it is. Might a borescope camera get in there?

No, there is no room to fit a camera in there.
Just remove the two nuts holding the MC to the pedal cluster, and pull it out to expose the numbers. There should be enough slack to not have to disconnect anything else. IIRC the numbers are on the bottom, and should be visible when pulled back; don't expect to find a 20 in there though.

[moggy]

Tried greenstuff pads years back and was fine for the road but as soon as I started pushing them on a track they were susceptible to brake fade. On the first tarmac rally I did in Belgium they were absolutely terrible, borderline dangerous. Since then I changed to Mintex pads with M1155 compound. Perfect for everyday road use from cold right up to full on race mode. Obviously for extreme race mode I'd advise proper racing pads, but for what you're looking for I'd suggest the Mintex pads with M1155 compound.

[gridgway]

Ahh interesting Moggy. 1155 is my favourite pad on the race car. But I cannot find the 914 fitment. Where do you get yours and what do you buy?
Cheers
Graham

[moggy]

You can buy them from:

http://www.questmead.co.uk/index.php/mintex-racing

Assuming you have the same 911 (or 914/6) caliper type as me you're going to need MDB1070 (which is the shape/design of the pad) and compound M1155. I'm pretty sure my calipers are Type M.

[gridgway]

Ahh it's not going to be the 911 caliper I reckon so back to square one

[davep]

All 914 (4 or 6) and many 911 calipers are type M; type M refers more to the pad size that it does caliper design.
A & S calipers use larger pads; and S is also thicker.
L calipers were used on very early 911 & 912 for the rears; they have less than 3" mount centers and an external cross-over line like the S caliper.
Graham, specifically, what calipers are you planning on using? The Porterfield pads I recommended I currently use on my daily driver Ford Fusion, and they are great year-round. Whenever possible I will use them on all of my cars.

[gridgway]

Sorry I'm just bimbling about really. I was wanting to pop some known half decent pads in to assess how good the brakes were going to be. Then decide whether to upgrade the calipers or not.

The porterfields felt a bit expensive for the experiment!

[gridgway]

Sorry I'm just bimbling about really. I was wanting to pop some known half decent pads in to assess how good the brakes were going to be. Then decide whether to upgrade the calipers or not.

The porterfields felt a bit expensive for the experiment!

[rhd racer]

I think this is a really tricky one Graham, and a little bit 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' - it depends how high you bar is.

The standard 914 set up will be fine for every day use - if the bias is working correctly and you have good tyres (assumed re your other thread) will be more than efficient. However, you have raced a single seater so might have slightly higher expectations in terms of feel and bite. I have run numerous combinations over the years as I developed mine as a competition car, but most have only kept up with power developments because I have been through lots of power / engine weight options. I have run the following;

4 cylinder 160bhp - steel 911e Calipers front and rear, with 19mm MC, stock pads. I would say this,is the base position as a fairly standard upgrade using marque parts from a 911 with equivalent power. I would say this is equivalent to the 17mm MC with stock 914 Calipers for a lower power output

6 cylinder 190 bhp - carrera 3.2 Calipers all round still with the 19mm MC. Again stock pads. I would say the brakes kept up with the power and weight gain, and overall performance was consistent with the prior set up. (Note on both I removed the standard balancer on the rear bulkhead and replaced with a Wilwood adjuster)

6 cylinder 209 bhp - wilwood 4 pots all round, with a 21mm merc conversion MC, with soft pads designed specifically for hard stops from cold. This set up is mind-blowing, and I have taken several co competitors out that could not beige how short my braking distances are and how hard / late you can be on the brakes. I have just developed a similar solution for the Boxster using OE parts that is equally awesome, and interestingly uses EBC yellows, which I have to say I am impressed with. Work well from cold, also warm, dust is acceptable, no squeal.

This is a long account to get to a simple answer for me. I don't think the pads are going to transform the braking experience. I think you need to decide how adequate they are based on what you own expectations are relative to your racing experience. If the discs are in good condition and everything pulls up straight and true, then you can play with pads to improve performance pretty much linear to your brake dust appetite! However, if you want to make a big step up, then I would suggest caliper and MC mods are done together, and you will really get the benefit of the upgrade. Note though, that the above were done with a 911 hand brake conversion mod inside the hub, so allowed me to be free of the restriction of the small rear handbrake equipped Calipers.

There are lots of options available, and I have spent lots of time and money developing solutions that met my requirements which were very high! My instinct is that if your are going to only use the car on the road then the standard set up without changing the MC is ok, and choose pads to match your grip / dust requirements. I know my response is a bit wide of your brief, but hope it helps (if only to discount options)

By all means get in touch if you want any help - there isn't much I haven't tried!

Cheers
Wayne

[gridgway]

Thanks Wayne, very comprehensive. I don't *think* my expectations are that high (I've driven quite a lot of non-servoed road cars and the brakes on my single seater are from the 70's), it's that the 914 brakes are rock solid and are really uninspiring to the point of almost being worrying. I forgot to ask the MoT man what the brake test showed (although it passed that bit). But as I've got to do it again, I will ask him.

Unfortunately I've only been driving to and er from the MoT so far, so not enough miles to get used to it!

As my work committments are currently split between Mansfield (sympathy expected) and the Philippines (no sympathy expected) and with a packed race schedule (absolutely no sympathy whatsoever), the 914 is sat in the garage in Epsom is taking a long time to get on the road!

Hey ho.
Graham

[rhd racer]

Well if you fancy a yarn over a coffee some time give me a shout. We are about 20 miles or so from Mansfield, just south of Newark.

Cheers
Wayne

[gridgway]

Thanks Wayne, do you fancy a beer one evening?

I've got some EBC greenstuff pads now to see what happens.

Graham

[rhd racer]

Sounds good Graham, will PM you my mobile,

Cheers
Wayne

[The Yellow One]

Thanks Wayne, do you fancy a beer one evening?

I've got some EBC greenstuff pads now to see what happens.

Graham

How did you get on with the greenstuffs? My braking has improved significantly with new lines on, my next step is to get the front brakes feeling as good as the rears. The car stops well but it's a little heavy on the rear bias currently, I'd rather improve the front brakes with some upgraded pads than turn the rears down!

[Nick Moss]

Graham, what car are we talking about and is it standard?