914 - Roll bar solutions

[23e Heure]

I'm considering fitting a roll bar / cage to my 74 914/6.

2 aims: 1) Add some safety. 2) Add some torsional strength.

Now, before we go all out and start talking about FIA approved items, I should explain that I am not planning on actually racing it.
I neither want nor need a full on, race certificated solution.

This car will be used for euro tours, and occasional enthusiastic use on track days, regularity rallies and the like.
So it needs to be a design that keeps the cabin spacious enough for driver and a navigator, to run in comfort when touring.

I have a relatively modest budget. So I won't be able to do things like remove and cut/replace the dash, as I have seen done on the very neatest jobs.

So then... What solutions can you recommend, what kind of cost am I looking at for purchase and install, and where should I go to get this done?

I like the look of this. Seems to have a removable cross brace/bar? Would this work for me, and if so anyone know if it's an off the peg item?



Thanks!

[914 KEV]

The 914 is very well designed, it has two roll protections already built in to the design:

1) The surround that goes up and across the rear window.
2) The surround round the front windscreen.

These are the parts of the 914 that will make contact if this low centre of gravity car ends up upside down and they are designed to take the impact if it ever happens.

I have been driving 914s since 1990 and I have no worries that if one of my 914s every ended up on its roof it would give me protection the in the event.
But, of course that is my opinion and other owners have different opinions.

[Mr Pharmacist]

If you want a bit more torsional strength install an engman type strengthening kit - it won't take up any room and will be well hidden once installed.

I'm not sure engman is still around but there will be other versions available

[23e Heure]

The 914 is very well designed, it has two roll protections already built in to the design:

Which - possibly - is what the ACO thought of the car and why they let the 914/6 run in the 24 Hour without a rollbar/cage!

I don't have the same level of confidence, especially not when considering the way the car will be used and the roads it will be used on sometimes.
Plus I'd like a bit more side impact protection too, and the windscreen surround defo wont help with that!

I am also attracted by a bit more torsional strength.
My car already has GT style chassis reinforcements welded in, but I would expect the right choice of roll cage to make the car even stiffer.

[914 KEV]

Plus I'd like a bit more side impact protection too, and the windscreen surround defo wont help with that!

You might not know this as your 914 body shell is a U.S. spec. 1974 model year. This means your doors have built in side impact protection.

[911hillclimber]

IMHO all car subjected to competition need a roll cage, and preferably a 6 point.
Try asking Caged if they have one. If not they might invite you to be the prototype car hence a cost saving plus you get the very best in the UK industry.

That cross bar is no good to you with a navigator, so you need to get a more open design.
This does not always mean cutting the dash etc.

[gridgway]

James, my thoughts are that cages are fine for road use provided you wear a helmet and harness. Head/cage interface moment is not a happy event.
Graham

[C3s]

+1

[rhd racer]

James, my thoughts are that cages are fine for road use provided you wear a helmet and harness. Head/cage interface moment is not a happy event.
Graham

I have to say I agree with this too James. Having put cages in both my mid engined cars, you appreciate that there is not much cabin space and your head is never far from the bar. It can be done (the Boxster one is really tight, but I have managed to get a seat in without too much compromise). Getting in and out is comical though, and you like like a proper burke when you fall out on your ar53 at the petrol station!

In the 914 I have a safety devices 5 point which works ok, and is much easier to get in an out of. The door bars can also be removed. If you do go for one, to keep safe you will need to get a proper race seat with 'ears' so you head is constrained to some degree in the event of an accident to keep you well away from the cage. The seat will need to be very carefully planned too, and in other to get it low enough to keep you clear of the cage you will need to mount on the lowest fixed setting and you will lose adjustment. This might be a compromise too far if you were going to let your dad share the driving, which I think was your intention. I don't wear a helmet on the road so this all needs to be really carefully planned to keep your noggin safe.

I have the same dilemma now the 914 has retired - keep the cage, seat, harness combo, or remove all and go for a much less racy set up. The problem is the car looks and is a competition car, so the retro move will look odd....

Hope that helps. Drop in one your way past next time if you want to sit in,
Cheers
Wayne

[jonat127]

I must admit I have been thinking along the same lines as you. However well built a car is if it does not have something joining the tops of the doors or the screen to the roll bar (a la stag) then is is missing out on some strength to stop it flexing (scuttle shake) and I get plenty of that in my car.
I am thinking about one of these for my project car.
http://corbymotorsport.com/porsche-bolt ... 66da30db9c
http://www.safetydevices.com/motorsport ... /418/1246/
But without the V brace or door bars, after all I am only looking for the over the door frame rigidity.
Also this then has minimal intrusion on the passenger (and driver) space.

[911hillclimber]

I have a Safety Devices 6 point in my 911.
It went in in 1996 and I've done 60K or so in it plus 13 years of hill climbs, all with the cage in place.

For real Motorsport the cage needs correct padding anywhere where the helmet will make contact.
The correct FIa padding is space hungry but softer than hitting the tubes.
You cannot hill climb unless this cage is padded.

I also have a full FIA race seat carefully positioned with small wings that are no intrusive to road views of the road.
It is extremely comfortable.
I have a road seat belt and 4 point harness for the drivers side.

I have crashed the car with this spec and came out well.
The car was 1" shorter than the other side as a result but the cage kept things together.

It was pulled straight with the cage in place.

It is now retired from the hills but still used on the road, no helmet, but as described and I'm happy with this, personal choice. the padding is key.

The cage looks and gives a very secure feeling.

Hope this helps.

The cage you have linked to looks right, check about the dash board cutting, if any, first.

[keith fellowes]

James, contact Richard Morgan 'moggy' on here about his cage fitted to his 914. Fully MSA compliant.
I sat with him on a couple of BHRC gravel rallies and even with a Hans device on did not have a problem. The only problem is what to do with helmets between stages!

Cheers

[PhilD]

Hi James,

My son fabricates one off cages and chassis and would be able to fit what you wanted. If required this is to any standard if required. I have a 914 with a cage, already fitted from racing in the US as a start to specify what you want. Cage is far enough away and protected with polystyrene so no worse than cars of that era from the head interaction. Recently fitted a full cage to a TVR Griffith which was tighter than the 914 plus awkward to land on the chassis and push out to the extremities.

Can provide photos.

Cheers

Phil

[23e Heure]

Thanks guys for the replies and advice.

Very aware of the "head vs metal tubing = messy potential" issue. Cannot be ignored, and I'm thinking carefully about how best to mitigate the risk.

This may sound a very naive question, but if you could retain 914 'flat' style headrests, would that at least protect the back of the head sufficiently?

Still weighing up options. I think the one I linked to with the photo is a Safety Devices jobbie.
Phil, I may be in touch.

[PhilD]

Hi James

I'm away at the moment but I'll post some photos of mine plus some of the removable door bars we did on the TVR

Cheers

Phil