914 vs the rest of Porsche

[moggy]

Took the rally car out for a spin at a PCGB track day in Anglesey at the weekend. I was fully expecting to be watching my mirrors all the time to make sure I was pulling over to let all the modern more powerful cars past. But let's just say my VW Camper engined little rocket raised a few eyebrows I didn't get passed once all day

I took a mate of mine who had a drive for a number of sessions too. He soon got the bug...

Here's what I was up against.

https://youtu.be/tva-3eZU4Dc

Although the 914 was no doubt the least powerful machine at the track it was surprising how good it handles on a track. I tried a track day last year, with a few of you guys, at an airfield track, but this was the first time I've ever tried a proper race track. The skinny 205/70 15 Dunlops were screeched to within an inch of their life (and beyond ). I was so surprised at how competitive the little 914 was, so I've decided to change tack. I've been rallying with it for about 7 years now (although not so much in the past 2 years) and I think it's time it took up something a little less aggressive on the car. The body has taken a good pounding over the years with rocks stripping the floorpan, and taking chunks out of everything underneath. I'm going to take up racing on the black stuff. Haven't quite decided exactly what yet. But I think the Porsche Speed Championship thing looks like a good giggle to start with. 50/50 sprints on circuits and hill climbs. It's gonna take me a while to convert it from rally setup to circuit setup, but I think I'll plan to do that over the course of this year.

2 major focus points to start with will be stiffer suspension and wider tyres/rims.

Currently it's 19mm torsion bars on front with a weltmeister anti-roll bar and 200lb springs on the rear. I needed it to be a little softer like this for rallying but the circuits are nice and smooth so I'm thinking of upgrading to 21mm on the front as a first step.

The rallying regs meant I couldn't run anything wider than 6 inch wheels, but now I can put something under the wide GT arches that can really fill them and help with the cornering grip. I'm thinking 9inch at the back and 7 inch at the front. I tried my Beetle wheels on it today, with a load of spacers to get the ET right. They are 9inch at the back and 7inch on the front. I think a set of Cup1 in matt black will look about right. Whadya reckon??





I'm gonna look to do a load more trackdays this year as I make the upgrades and dial it all in.

[keith fellowes]

Crikey Moggy, never seen it looking so nice and shiney!! It looks good.Those wheels though don't look right, what about Minilites?
Have a look at the HRCR Speed Championship, that does sprints and hillclimbs, never imagined you as a PCGB member!
I now have a 911SC track car 'ish but not done a track day yet. Be great to tag along with you to show me the ropes

Keith

[ollieg]

I will be watching with interest as you spec your car for the track Moggy. Sometime in the next decade or so(!) I hope to be joining you, albeit probably someway behind!

Can I be honest?…I'm personally not a fan of 'modern' wheels on 914s. Mine will be a pretty authentic 'GT-look' tribute.

O.

[moggy]

Hi Keith

Good to here from you The shinyness won't last

I'm not a PCGB member I just tagged along and joined their track day.

I'm also not a fan of modern wheels on the 914. They just don't look right. I checked out the Minilite website last night and they do do 15x9 15x8 and 15x7 wheels, just like the 15x6 wheels I already have on there for rallying.



But the trouble is I wouldn't be able to run lower profile tyres on the 15 inch rims. I need to keep at least the same overall tyre diameter as I have now to prevent me running out of gear. At the track day in Anglesey I was already flat out in 5th (6500rpm) on the straight and I REALLY don't want to change the gearing in the box as I've only just had it put back together again and working properly for the first time in ages. Maybe Minilite is the way to go but with non-low profile tyres. I'll have to see...

The only modern wheels I am OK with that don't look too silly on the 914 is black Cup 1's



The jury is still out and I've still a load of investimigationalising to do

[delkel]

Looks great
I remember the Abingdon experience, great to see u on the track with it again and hopefully again and again.

D

[SiJ]

Hi Moggy, glad to see you're putting many more of the track day cars to shame. It was certainly a pleasure watching you at Abingdon.
I'm definitely a Minilite fan......
Perhaps see you on another track day in 2015? I've sorted my brakes since I last saw you so maybe able to give you a bit more of a chase.....
Si

[jwhillracer]

Hi Moggy,

You will enjoy the Porsche Speed Championship. The competitors are not the standard cross-section of PCGB membership by any stretch of the imagination. You and your car will fit in VERY well! If in doubt, drop me a line, or Ian (914-6) or Wayne (rhdracer)
One thing that I would say if you want to have a go - don't change the spec of your car until you have done a couple of sprints and hillclimbs, partly so that you know your car, and how it is likely to react, and can then tell a/ whether the changes are necessary or not, and b/ what difference the changes have made.
I have never run any more than standard 19mm front torsion bars on my hillclimb 911, but then again, I prefer hillclimbs to circuit sprints...........
If you are free over the week-end of 13/14th June, come to Loton Park, just outside Shrewsbury, to have a look and a chat. It is a superb hillclimb course, and that week-end has the Porsche Speed Championship, the new Porsche National Hillclimb Championship, the Midland Hillclimb Championship, and the British Hillclimb Championship, with all of the top cars and drivers in the country. There will be plenty to see and plenty of people to talk to about the sport.

See you there, I hope!

JW

[rhd racer]

Hi Moggy

Now there is a welcome and surprise post!

Do you have short ratios in the 14? I have never run out of revs in 5th TBH with 4 or 6 cylinders in the Championship. Due to it being split discipline and multi venue, you will find constantly that a bespoke gear set would be ideal, but the reality is often you will have to decide between a short shift or 5 seconds on the rev limiter! I agree with JW to crack on and have a bash first, then decide how to develop the car. There are plenty of fast rally cars on both hills and circuits too....

BTW, most 914 racers that I have spoken to over the years reckon that going above a 15" wheel upsets the car, and isn't worth the expense / effort. I have always run 7s and 8s with 205/50 15s and 225/50 15s. I ran both with spacers (about 15mm from memory and you need to fit long studs as the bolt on spacers kits are prohibited as the prob are in rallying). I can't remember ever feeling the need for more tyre, for what it's worth.

hope to see you at Loton - the family is coming so will have loan skirts available!!

Call me if want any advice at all,

ATB
wayne

[moggy]

Thanks guys for your encouragement. I'll try to make it to Loton Park.

I'm erring towards the 15x7 and 15x9 Minilites. They can do them with the offset I will most likely need. The only downside is that the tyres will be a little fat, but then again, fat and wide looks nice and period.

Gears are non standard Wayne. 1st and 2nd are standard, my old 4th is now 5th gear and the 3rd and 4th are fillers.

[rhd racer]

I get you - should still be ok though, I have definitely never used 5th on a sprint.

cheers
wayne

[moggy]

One of the sprint circuits is Anglesey, and there I was flat out in 5th for a second or two on the main big back straight (before you have to break sharp for a 90 degree left at the top of the hill). My concern was that other circuits where there are sprint events might have longer straights, and for these I would be hampered by the gearing, maybe? I'm just not sure if there are circuits which have longer straights. This is why I'm thinking I definitely can't go with a lower diameter tyre than I have now. Maybe I'll even have to go with a taller tyre on the rear for circuits with longer straights. For hill climbs this is not an issue, my present gearing is fine for this environment as it's more like the back lanes that are used for rallies (e.g. Ulster).

One thing is for sure....now I'm not restricted to the skinny 6 inch wheels that are only allowed in historic rallying I can finally fill the GT wheel arches with some proper rubber. Minilites are certainly my preferred option at the moment (as costs are relatively low and the offsets are good), with a 16inch Fuch (replica?) as an outside bet (this would at least allow me a little more low profile tyre but I'm not sure on costs and offset options).

What wheel/tyre combo did you have on the 914? and what's all this I hear about you turning to the darkside and racing a Boxster?

What lap times did you get at Anglesey? My fastest was a 1.48 , I don't know if that's good, bad or average so would be interested in comparatives.

[jackstowers]

Looks like it's had a little polish since Abingdon? Definitely like to come see it doing it's thing this summer. Keep us updated with where it'll be embarrassing the big boys!!

[keith fellowes]

Moggy, another competitive option for later in the year has just been announced, the Motorsport News Circuit Rally Championship. They will be using Oulton Park, Brands, Snetterton and Mallory and starts on 7th November and have 7 or 8 rounds, running into 2016. http://www.britishrally.co.uk/forum/vie ... =5&t=60028 I've done a few of this type of event and it is a cross between rallying and racing, all on tarmac and they are a hoot. I did a few as a driver, for me no ditches!
The advice above is spot on, run it as it is see what you think. No track days or testing can beat a competition of any sort.
cheers

[jwhillracer]

No track days or testing can beat a competition of any sort.

Absolutely spot on! I have only ever done the one track day at Abingdon last year. The company of the 914 guys was superb, but the event left me cold, no point, no result...................

JW

[moggy]

I agree, that's why I wanna get back on the competition horse

I know what some of you are saying about the "get the car into competition and then starts tinkering" strategy, but the problem is this:

The car is setup for rallying, which means that it's setup to absorb some pretty big bumps you don't find on hillclimbs and circuits i.e. it's setup with 17.9mm stock 914-4 torsion bars at the front. Although I had the Weltmeister anti-roll bar set to max at the circuit last weekend it was evident that the soft front end was not a good thing. Therefore I'm looking to at least upgrade to 21mm as that's the softest 914-4 upgraded torsion bar I can go with. I know I could change the whole front end to 911 and have 19mm option as stock (and then go from there) but that's a lot of work, compared to just fitting a new set of torsion bars to an already sorted front suspension setup.

Secondly. The max wheel width I could run the Historic Rallying was 6 inch. I am now not restricted by this. Couple this fact by the fact that I've now run out of tarmac tyres left over from rallying (as they are all well and truly fecked after my track exploits ) and that the GT wide wings are screaming out to be filled, and it's.... off shopping for wheels we go

I've got to keep with the 25inch total tyre diameter to maintain the max speed limitations I've got with the short ratio box. I definitely don't want to go any lower than this, in fact a little taller might not be a bad thing on some circuits.