JP Group / Dansk panel differences?

[Flat 6]

Hi Folks,

Happy New Year to all!

I have just noticed Eurocarparts offering two different versions of the same panel, both of which come from JP Group / Dansk.

See here for the panels in question: http://www.eurocarparts.com/bumper - the rear centre panel.

My question isn't actually about this panel (which I don't need) but about the different offerings from JP Group who own Dansk (and now SSI I see!!). The more expensive panel is branded JP Group and is presented as a 'VM' (Vehicle Manufacturer) panel. The cheaper panel is branded Dansk. One is £200, the other is £84.

Does anyone know whether this company actually make two different panels, one of a better quality than the other? I had read somewhere that JP Group do actually supply panels to Porsche. I'm wondering if JP Group actually made the expensive front panel I bought recently from my local OPC. If they do I'd been keen to understand how different it is from their Dansk branded version (heavier gauge steel? Better quality welding, finishing??).

It would also be useful to know if somewhere like Eurocarparts were actually an alternative source of OEM panels!

On a side note, ECP are still selling the Dansk 65L fuel tank for £190 which is very very cheap..

Al.

[AndrewSlater]

I order some of the cheaper 'Dansk' panels over Christmas and the ones that arrived were labelled JP Group which I took as Dansk. All genuine Porsche panels I have are clearly labelled Genuine Porsche - so not sure there is a difference between Dansk and JP Group.

As for the ECP Dansk 65L fuel tank - tried ordering one from ECP last year but they never fulfilled the order in the end - so it is advertised but not necessarily actually available. In the end bought the same one from eBay.de for slightly less delivered.

[Nick Moss]

The Eurocarparts page looks very clear to me. Dansk is Dansk (cheap and cheerful), Porsche Genuine is a genuine Porsche panel (not made by Dansk), at about the same price that you can buy from Porsche.

[AndrewSlater]

Ironically shortly after my previous post, another parcel of panels has arrived from a reputable 911 parts supplier.
I specifically ordered Genuine Porsche panels (at a premium) only to find they are labelled JP Group Dansk.

Have had words with the supplier and they have apologised and asked me to send them back.
I'm wondering if this is actually a mistake or whether they are trying it on - as I'm guessing some people wouldn't realise the difference.

I'm not against Dansk parts but do expect them to be cheaper when purchased!

[Bez1]

Hello Flat 6

I am asking my self this very question at the moment as I am thinking of replacing front both wings. Here is what I've learnt after 2 and a bit years underway with restoring Lucy, my 912.

An original Porsche panel will always fit better. However the key question is is the panal you have ordered original old stock, or a newly produced part from a new tool. After 35+ years Porsche are very unlikely to have the original parts in stock, so even a new OE Porsche panel will likely be from a new tool and hence a challenge to fit.

In 2012 at the Technika Klassika Essen I spoke with Sportwagen Eckert who are one of the big Dansk handlers here in Germany. Having spoken to Herr Eckert senior I understood that Dansk make parts for Eckert, who then supply Porsche. Eckert have paid for new tools to be made and Dansk simply produce the part. You can also go direct to Eckert for the parts on their website. They have a big advert with Dansk in every issue of Classic Porsche Magazine, but be prepared to pay a premium.

Over here on Ebay.de I have had very good experiences with kfz.kauert and have recently ordered a Dansk front bumper. The fit, surface protection and feel of the bumper is as OE Porsche and the Porsche OE bumper brackets fitted without too much hassel. Kauert are a lot chaper for the same thing as supplied by Eckert (Porsche)

That said, I also had a Dansk front suspension pan and it was junk. I swapped over to a Restoration Design panel that was welded as per the Porsche OE panel. I am a big fan of the RD panels and have used them extensively so far. For comparison images please have a look at my restoration thread. I notice that Barry has also added some comments in my thread that the Porsche OE panel quality has dropped off lately.

I have also had some Dansk window frame corners and I am of the opinion that the tooling used to produce these parts is worn out. The fit and bend quality is just not there for a new tool.

I would be very interested in the next batch of parts that you are having delivered and to see of thre are indeed any differences. The only true way of knowing would be to order Porsche OE and Dansk to compare.

Can anyone else comment upon the front wing compare using recent experience i.e. Dansk vrs Porsche OE in the last 12 months? We have to be careful about the tooling age I think.

Thanks

Matt

[Flat 6]

Hmm...interesting stuff.

It's perfectly possible that ECP have used an inaccurate photo of that panel with 'JP Group' on it for their website but if they haven't then it does imply that JP Group have two grades of product.

I have sent them an email seeking clarification.

I suffer from having been involved in supply chain management in the past...hence the desire to have a fairly accurate view of which manufacturer actually supplies what panel to which retailer.

Any metalwork I have purchased so far have come either from my local OPC or from Roger Bray who supply Restoration Design panels. Without buying panels from other manufacturers like Dansk or Retro Line I have no way of knowing how these compare but I gather than the pro restorers use RD or Porsche where possible.

Cheers,

Al.

[Flat 6]

JP Group have come back to let me know that they only make one version of that rear centre panel. So, if ECP are offering a more expensive panel it is not from them and they should not have used that photo.

The Product Manager at JP Group did confirm that they used old and new tools for some panels, particularly floor pans. Presumably this means two different quality levels.

He also confirmed that they did supply classic panels to Porsche AG but that they did not sell these panels through any other channel.

So, I am now going to see if ECP will tell me where they get their more expensive panels from.

Al.

[911hillclimber]

Good on you for chasing this down.
There is too much temptation for poor quality panels at 'porsche' prices.

Be good to get a clear view of what is being offered.

[Project 911]

Can anyone else comment upon the front wing compare using recent experience i.e. Dansk vrs Porsche OE in the last 12 months? We have to be careful about the tooling age I think.

I'm in process of buying SWB front wings as well, unfortunately I can't buy them from here as official Porsche dealership won't use PET prices... (all other Porsche dealers throughout Euro area uses them AFAIK)
Do you know if these are available also as "Dansk-version" as well? That makes it even more difficult as I would prefer to buy "Porsche-wings" if they are available, but unfortunately suppliers won't say if they are Dansk or Porsche in adverts. So I need to be extra careful.

[Bez1]

Hi all,

I have had a couple of further thoughts.

I have had very good experience with ordering parts through PartsWise in Holland. Upon their website they list two different versions of the 69-73 front wings. One is a Dansk part, the other Porsche OE. They are also listed with the same image but have different pricing. 670 € Dansk / 1006 € € OE Porsche (all + VAT)

http://www.parts-wise.com/porsche-911/b ... a/p136208/

Sportwagen Eckert are listing the same 69-73 wings for 750 € each (incl. VAT). My intention is to write an E-mail to them asking what the quality of these parts is like and I hope we can get a definitive answer.

http://sportwagen-eckert.clmm.net/index ... 65-73.html

I have also used Joma for parts in the past and have a rear bumper center section from them. I am of the opinion this is not a Dansk part as the surface protection is different. Can post an image if need be.

I think is also worth asking Restoration Design and their European handler the same questions, as they also have wings listed on their site which is down as I write this.

Obviously if someone can sell you the same part made by Dansk at the higher Porsche OE price, then the margin is higher for the parts dealer. You can see the motivation and I'd be surprised if anyone admitted to this......

Hopefully we we can piece the puzzle together.

Matt

[Project 911]

Thanks Matt!

I actually asked couple of weeks ago from Eckert if SWB wings they supply are Porsche or Dansk (1965-1968 wings) and prices for them as they were POA, they just sent me prices which were several hundreds € more than LWB versions. IMO very quite high if they are Dansk wings. But of course I can't if they are Dansk or Porsche as they didn't say, not buying from them for sure then.

[Nick Moss]

So, I am now going to see if ECP will tell me where they get their more expensive panels from.

They buy Genuine Porsche parts directly from an OPC in Germany, their quantities mean that they can buy at a much lower prices than a small operator like me, but in my experience their trade prices are the same as Porsche, as are their retail prices.

I'm in process of buying SWB front wings as well, unfortunately I can't buy them from here as official Porsche dealership won't use PET prices..

Your profile says that you are in London, so that doesn't make a lot of sense. Where are you?

I gather than the pro restorers use RD or Porsche where possible.

Porsche wherever possible, but I do use RD rear quarter repair panels for kidney bowl work. Roger Bray sell RD panels and Dansk (they are now concessionaires, as are Tech9)

Porsche bought up all the original Porsche tooling from Karmann when they went bust a couple of years ago, they are producing more and more panels as they repair the tooling and bring it on line.

The way to find out if Porsche supply a panel is to ask at your local OPC; Eckert et all may not be as motivated to sell you a genuine panel as they will be getting a better margin from Dansk

[Project 911]

Sorry Nick, I have forgotten to update my location (done now).

Used to live in London (I even visited your premises) but moved back to Finland quite a while ago.
So unfortunately can't use Porsche West London anymore, now closest place to source parts well is pretty much Germany as our local OPC pricing is quite a different than in any other Euro country.

[Nick Moss]

Porsche have the left front SWB wing 901 503 031 22 GRV in stock in Germany, £914.58 plus VAT in the UK. The right wing 901 503 032 22 GRV is not in stock, so you will be ordering to go on a waiting list. £838.31 plus VAT

[Bez1]

I have been onto the Dansk website and they quote they supply parts to Porsche at OE standards.

http://catalogue.jpgroup.dk/default.aspx

"German/Danish engineering. We are original equipment supplier to Porsche. ®. Dansk is an OE brand name and we produce: Original standard. All produces according to the highest standards!"

They also have a second line of parts.

"Equipment, accessories and standard replacement parts.We have a wide program of various replacement parts for Porsche®. These parts can be found in our new complete Porsche® catalogue. Please do not hesitate to ask for it!"

Kind of backs up what Herr Eckert told me in 2012. The question is are Dansk using two different tools? One for OE Porsche. One for Dansk that is possibly older. The Dansk bumper I ordered on Ebay.de is to an OE standard and I will post some images. The question is are the wings to the same high standard?

The only way to tell would be to order one Dansk and one Porsche OE to compare and could cost up to 300 € to find out......

Matt