RHD UK No 1 '67 911S ex Porsche Cars GB reg LYY 911D auction

[KS]

Why can't we just accept that this particular car, to all intents and purposes, no longer exists? It's a shame, but sh•t happens. If the car had been destroyed years ago, driven over a cliff, burned up and the remains washed out to sea, everyone would just accept it. Sometimes you just have to know when to let go... At the end of the 're-creation', the owner will have a nice car – but it won't be the same car. IMHO, of course.

[Nick Moss]

^^^^ because it's an opportunity to get another 67S back on the road. We wouln't want Victory to be scrapped just because only 20% is original so why this S?

[210bhp]

I suppose.......



In the mists of time we do tend to forget what is real and what is recreation.


Regards
Mike

[davep]

I suppose.......
In the mists of time we do tend to forget what is real and what is recreation.

True, but I guess that as long as we are here to document such things, the truth will still be out there to be found.
In that vein, I do hope that the new owner will have, or permit, a restoration thread.

[DEEMAN]

To rebuild a car such as LYY 911D and claim it is original is very different to restoring a car that is in a very sad state but marks a significant point in production so it can be driven again.
Orginiality is not the point here, saving it is and I admire the new owner for taking it on. It will always represent that point in production and if its history is complete then OK.
Would we question a 912 being made into a 911 by putting a six cylinder motor into it?
Some might but only if it were passed off as being a 911.
In my rebuild I have sacrificed a 912 to get the body panels I needed. OK, the 912 was a very strange bird that had already been seriously modifed on the exterior and all the spare parts have gone to needy owner to keep their cars running.
Have I sinned using period panels rather than modifying new panels? Should I try finding NOS - agh c'mon!
Everything wears out in time and all most of us are trying to do is keep the car representitive of what they were like when made.
I agree with Davep - hopefully it will be saved with its complete history. I look forward to its reincarnation and wish its owner well.


Ian

___________________________

1965 RHD 911
2001 3.2 Boxster

[911hillclimber]

Just in my opinion; the car is the worst anyone has seen in a very long time.

It would be great to see it bought back, and a period correct re-shell (912 whatever) and then remove the knee bar # and the dash with chalk # and deliberately weld them in next to the 'donor' car ID's. No weld dressing, all open.

Then in the car's history the truth is known, who did it, why and in what way using what car.

The car comes to life again as accurately as possible within the owners means and the job is done.

[KS]

Would we question a 912 being made into a 911 by putting a six cylinder motor into it?

I certainly would. It would only ever be a mongrel...

I was playing Devil's advocate here – the question of how far you can go and still be able to call a car 'original' or 'genuine' has reared its head since the early days of people restoring D-Types and Cobras. Not without reason is there the 'joke' about there being more Le Mans-winning D-Types than ever took part in the event, or more 'genuine' seven-litre Cobras than ever rumbled off the line.

But it does raise the question, what actually constitutes the heart and soul of an individual car? What truly gives it its unique identity? Usually we talk of chassis and engine numbers. Is a re-shelled 67 S a restored 67 S, or more accurately a 911 with a 67 S engine fitted (along with whatever other bits are required)? If you went to DVLA (or VOSA these days) and said you'd put all the parts (including a non-original engine)of a rusty car into another shell, and then cut out the chassis number and openly (no hidden welds…) welded it into the 'new' shell, do you think they'd be happy? I for one wouldn't want to put it to the test.

Yes, I truly hope the car is rebuilt – it will make most other restos here on DDK pale into insignificance in terms of the amount of work. But, being the Devil's advocate again, where do you draw the line regarding identity?

Right, I'm off to celebrate Chris Froome's victory on Mt Ventoux…

[Schläfer]

I've got to agree with Keith on this one. This car was lost years ago, it can never be that same 911S.

It's a seriously grey area, at best it'll be a 911S engined 912, at worst a ringer. Not something I'd want to be getting involved in.

[one-two]

Not so sure. If the car is matching numbers - did I understand that to be the case? - then my view would be that a substantial part of its identity remains. There is, as far as I know, no other car that claims the same identity. And the fact that its current condition is widely-known and well-documented hopefully reduces the chance of any intentional or unintentional confusion at some point in the distant future. It certainly won't be the only old car to receive a very considerable amount of new metalwork during its resto! Best wishes, Robert

[Nige]

Why would this be any than an MGB with a heritage body reshell?

Nobody is questioning the genuineness of Ferrymans Carrera rebuild, there can't be much left of the core shell in that restoration. Why can't this be any different?

[210bhp]

Why would this be any than an MGB with a heritage body reshell?

Nobody is questioning the genuineness of Ferrymans Carrera rebuild, there can't be much left of the core shell in that restoration. Why can't this be any different?

1. Because, despite full knowledge of the cars current condition, it will be advertised as a 67S some way down the line and not a 'heritage', 're-shell', 'clone', 'facsimile', 'representative of', 'close replica',

The proof is in a current similar car for sale for over six figures which has no mention whatsoever of the level of 're-shelling' that has taken place, either by the restorer, the owner or the seller on a hefty commission. When I phoned there was 'no clue' how the restoration was done or how extensive.

2. Yes they are.


Regards
Mike

[one-two]

The market's answer is to pay more - possibly much more - for known and documented original cars. We are still a little new to all of this in the early 911 world, but it is not uncommon elsewhere to pay more attention to the history, provenance and paperwork than the car itself. We will get there and this little car will find its place on that basis

[Nick Moss]

The proof is in a current similar car for sale for over six figures which has no mention whatsoever of the level of 're-shelling' that has taken place, either by the restorer, the owner or the seller on a hefty commission. When I phoned there was 'no clue' how the restoration was done or how extensive.

The difference here is that the state of LYY 911D is highly publicised, the state of OLC 9E never was. Because of this publicity (put LYY 911D into Google) it would be virtually impossible for anyone to misrepresent this car in the future.

[Schläfer]

Fred Hampton once said to me " When the tide comes in, all the boats float" and it's certainly true in our market right now. There has to be a financial interest in doing something like this, it wouldn't get done just for the love of it.

[pht9]

Not so sure. If the car is matching numbers - did I understand that to be the case? - then my view would be that a substantial part of its identity remains. There is, as far as I know, no other car that claims the same identity. And the fact that its current condition is widely-known and well-documented hopefully reduces the chance of any intentional or unintentional confusion at some point in the distant future. It certainly won't be the only old car to receive a very considerable amount of new metalwork during its resto! Best wishes, Robert

It's not matching numbers !