356 Race Car
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one-two
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Re: 356 Race Car
Looks like 3 hours starts at 3.20. Here is the timetable
http://hscc.org.uk/images/Provisional_T ... terton.pdf
http://hscc.org.uk/images/Provisional_T ... terton.pdf
Robert Barrie Limited
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info@robertbarrielimited.com
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Re: 356 Race Car
See you there Robert
1972 911T | 1994 993 Carrera | 1999 986 Boxster |
Vintage Heuer, Omega, Zenith and other vintage watches - http://www.heuerheritage.co.uk
Vintage Heuer, Omega, Zenith and other vintage watches - http://www.heuerheritage.co.uk
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Re: 356 Race Car
Anyone else venturing into Norfolk and coming to Snetterton on Saturday? If you are let me know and we can meet up
1972 911T | 1994 993 Carrera | 1999 986 Boxster |
Vintage Heuer, Omega, Zenith and other vintage watches - http://www.heuerheritage.co.uk
Vintage Heuer, Omega, Zenith and other vintage watches - http://www.heuerheritage.co.uk
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john ruston
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Re: 356 Race Car
The aim is a 28 sec lap in 356?
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Re: 356 Race Car
Nice to see you today Steve.
I stayed for the start of the 3 hours and watched for a while
I take my hat off to you Steve. You're up against some well powered stuff!
A few pics - I've started a thread in past pictures to post some others of the meet http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewto ... 44#p358744
It truly is a wonderful car and looks so cool being thrown around the track.



Excuse the poor action shots (only had my phone with me)




I stayed for the start of the 3 hours and watched for a while
I take my hat off to you Steve. You're up against some well powered stuff!
A few pics - I've started a thread in past pictures to post some others of the meet http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewto ... 44#p358744
It truly is a wonderful car and looks so cool being thrown around the track.



Excuse the poor action shots (only had my phone with me)




1972 911T | 1994 993 Carrera | 1999 986 Boxster |
Vintage Heuer, Omega, Zenith and other vintage watches - http://www.heuerheritage.co.uk
Vintage Heuer, Omega, Zenith and other vintage watches - http://www.heuerheritage.co.uk
- Bootsy
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Re: 356 Race Car
He doesn't just drive you know. He files bits of metal too!


1972 911T | 1994 993 Carrera | 1999 986 Boxster |
Vintage Heuer, Omega, Zenith and other vintage watches - http://www.heuerheritage.co.uk
Vintage Heuer, Omega, Zenith and other vintage watches - http://www.heuerheritage.co.uk
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steve wright
- DDK rules my life!
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Re: 356 Race Car
Thanks Tom! I failed to take a single photo, so these are much appreciated. Yes we are playing with the Big Boys!
Well we reached a milestone at Snetterton, returning for the 3 Hour Autosport endurance race. This was an epic race last year that saw us destroy the clutch, have the front brake retaining springs fail leaving us with no front brakes and Mark Sumpter having to use the handbrake for the last hour, and losing the fan belt two laps from the end. Incredibly the car finished the race, and we took 15th place overall, firmly planting the bug that is endurance racing and proving the 356 to be a tough little car.
It has to be tough as putting any historic car through three hours of racing is a tough ask, but asking it of a 55 year old car with drums brakes all round is an especially big challenge. A quick look down the entry list this year was not confidence inspiring though: all Sports Racers (mainly Chevron's) except for 5 MGB's in our class who were undoubtably going to be quicker than us. Damn! The car felt pretty good though and well sorted. We noticed however in the strip down after Silverstone that the front brake shoes wouldn't go the distance of the 3 Hour race, so elected to run the American 60mm shoes I had purchased as a back up – we might as well have used cheese for brake linings. Out the pits, down Senna Straight, onto the brakes and ahhhh! I might as well have stuck my hand out for all the difference the new shoes made. A mistake with front tyre pressures and a stiff crosswind made the front of the car horribly vague, and the safety car came out after three laps which meant my qualifying time was curtailed with lousy times. Ian did far better with a good time, posting us ahead of a lovely original E-Type and a Lotus Elan.
We quickly changed the shoes for the relined ones that had been delivered to the circuit (thanks Mark of T2D!) but we failed to notice the cork seal on the top of the tank that seals the filler to the tank had deteriorated, so whenever the tank was brimmed and you cornered hard, the fuel was forced out past the seal and onto the top of the tank. The fumes quickly started to poison the atmosphere in the cabin, and with the window only cracked open an inch it was pretty toxic. It made the first hours racing tough and I felt physically sick by the time I handed over the Ian for his first stint. However the car felt good and I was confident at this point that things were going well. Never count your chickens when it comes to historic endurance racing though….
Ian came in unscheduled, halfway through his stint with an ashen look to his face: he'd had a major off, going straight on at the end of the Bentley Straight - 120mph and a brake pedal that went to the floor. Mercifully he had the presence of mind in that split second to simply go straight on and use the exit road and then take to the grass in a straight line, rejoining the circuit and coming straight into the pits. No fluid or mechanical issues obviously meant we had boiled the fluid. The rear brakes were red hot – the new front shoes had bedded in and without adjustment had ceased to be making contact with the drum. Mav and Andy, our loyal crew, did a quick calculation and figured we would waste less time circulating slowly for the last 80 minutes than if we got tools out and started playing with brake adjustment, so we sent Ian back out with no brakes to circulate slowly. Interestingly he got progressively quicker, posting a time just 2 seconds off his fastest lap with brakes, scrubbing speed by getting the car sideways which allowed the brakes to cool down, which just goes to show how a change in driving style can be almost as effective in getting round quickly. That was a salutary lesson for both of us on improving our driving styles.
The rest of the race was uneventful, Ian and I sharing the last hour, if racing without brakes can be described as uneventful! We finally crossed the finish line in 15th place overall, and third in class: exactly the same result as last year, although we were the last car to finish the race: nine cars expired over the 3 hours (over 33%), and half the under 2 litre class didn't finish. This really is a race of attrition. Finishing though did mean we picked up a useful 4 points in the championship and I think moved us from 10th to 5th in the under 2 litre class. I'm not 100% certain of this but we've certainly moved up the leader board and are in a much stronger position than we were at this point last year. Whether we maintain this or not is debatable as we're missing Croft and Spa. But as Barry pointed out afterwards, nothing broke, nothing came off, and the car is getting more competitive on each outing. All the major items have been improved, so it's hopefully only a matter of minor refinement from here.
As an aside it makes interesting reading looking at the Autosport 3 Hour history. It was won in its first year by Ken Rudd in an AC Ace in '57, then Jim Lowry and Jim Clark in a Lotus Elite in '58 and '59 respectively. Dickie Stoop won it in 1960 in a Porsche 356B - I don't know which model this was in, or whether in fact it was in a Carrera or GTL, but it's still amazing a 356 won it outright. Then the big boys took over, with a D-Type, then 250GTO winning, Clark again won in a Lotus this time a 23B, and then in it's final year it was won by Jack Sears in 1964 in an AC Cobra. The fact that a 356 won the event overall gives you some idea of how historic racing has changed though. There is no way a 356, driven by us or anyone else, would win the event now. I must admit the race was a pretty lonely affair. Other than a terrific dice with the near-stock E-Type for a handful of laps as I reeled him in, before I managed to take him under brakes (before they faded!) at Murrays, I spent most of the race with no-one in front or in my mirrors, other than staying out the way of the Sports Racers. The excitement came from the endurance angle of the racing, rather than racing against others. Given the cars increasing competitiveness it would be good to compete against more comparable machines, say in the pre-63 GT series, where we would probably be mid–pack, enjoying a lot more cut and thrust racing. But we're getting ahead of ourselves. There's a championship to contend and a car to develop for this year.
And the proudest moment? Being able to rip the yellow and black novice sticker off the back of the car! Thanks again to Mav (and Andy) for crewing for the weekend - couldn't do it without them.
Well we reached a milestone at Snetterton, returning for the 3 Hour Autosport endurance race. This was an epic race last year that saw us destroy the clutch, have the front brake retaining springs fail leaving us with no front brakes and Mark Sumpter having to use the handbrake for the last hour, and losing the fan belt two laps from the end. Incredibly the car finished the race, and we took 15th place overall, firmly planting the bug that is endurance racing and proving the 356 to be a tough little car.
It has to be tough as putting any historic car through three hours of racing is a tough ask, but asking it of a 55 year old car with drums brakes all round is an especially big challenge. A quick look down the entry list this year was not confidence inspiring though: all Sports Racers (mainly Chevron's) except for 5 MGB's in our class who were undoubtably going to be quicker than us. Damn! The car felt pretty good though and well sorted. We noticed however in the strip down after Silverstone that the front brake shoes wouldn't go the distance of the 3 Hour race, so elected to run the American 60mm shoes I had purchased as a back up – we might as well have used cheese for brake linings. Out the pits, down Senna Straight, onto the brakes and ahhhh! I might as well have stuck my hand out for all the difference the new shoes made. A mistake with front tyre pressures and a stiff crosswind made the front of the car horribly vague, and the safety car came out after three laps which meant my qualifying time was curtailed with lousy times. Ian did far better with a good time, posting us ahead of a lovely original E-Type and a Lotus Elan.
We quickly changed the shoes for the relined ones that had been delivered to the circuit (thanks Mark of T2D!) but we failed to notice the cork seal on the top of the tank that seals the filler to the tank had deteriorated, so whenever the tank was brimmed and you cornered hard, the fuel was forced out past the seal and onto the top of the tank. The fumes quickly started to poison the atmosphere in the cabin, and with the window only cracked open an inch it was pretty toxic. It made the first hours racing tough and I felt physically sick by the time I handed over the Ian for his first stint. However the car felt good and I was confident at this point that things were going well. Never count your chickens when it comes to historic endurance racing though….
Ian came in unscheduled, halfway through his stint with an ashen look to his face: he'd had a major off, going straight on at the end of the Bentley Straight - 120mph and a brake pedal that went to the floor. Mercifully he had the presence of mind in that split second to simply go straight on and use the exit road and then take to the grass in a straight line, rejoining the circuit and coming straight into the pits. No fluid or mechanical issues obviously meant we had boiled the fluid. The rear brakes were red hot – the new front shoes had bedded in and without adjustment had ceased to be making contact with the drum. Mav and Andy, our loyal crew, did a quick calculation and figured we would waste less time circulating slowly for the last 80 minutes than if we got tools out and started playing with brake adjustment, so we sent Ian back out with no brakes to circulate slowly. Interestingly he got progressively quicker, posting a time just 2 seconds off his fastest lap with brakes, scrubbing speed by getting the car sideways which allowed the brakes to cool down, which just goes to show how a change in driving style can be almost as effective in getting round quickly. That was a salutary lesson for both of us on improving our driving styles.
The rest of the race was uneventful, Ian and I sharing the last hour, if racing without brakes can be described as uneventful! We finally crossed the finish line in 15th place overall, and third in class: exactly the same result as last year, although we were the last car to finish the race: nine cars expired over the 3 hours (over 33%), and half the under 2 litre class didn't finish. This really is a race of attrition. Finishing though did mean we picked up a useful 4 points in the championship and I think moved us from 10th to 5th in the under 2 litre class. I'm not 100% certain of this but we've certainly moved up the leader board and are in a much stronger position than we were at this point last year. Whether we maintain this or not is debatable as we're missing Croft and Spa. But as Barry pointed out afterwards, nothing broke, nothing came off, and the car is getting more competitive on each outing. All the major items have been improved, so it's hopefully only a matter of minor refinement from here.
As an aside it makes interesting reading looking at the Autosport 3 Hour history. It was won in its first year by Ken Rudd in an AC Ace in '57, then Jim Lowry and Jim Clark in a Lotus Elite in '58 and '59 respectively. Dickie Stoop won it in 1960 in a Porsche 356B - I don't know which model this was in, or whether in fact it was in a Carrera or GTL, but it's still amazing a 356 won it outright. Then the big boys took over, with a D-Type, then 250GTO winning, Clark again won in a Lotus this time a 23B, and then in it's final year it was won by Jack Sears in 1964 in an AC Cobra. The fact that a 356 won the event overall gives you some idea of how historic racing has changed though. There is no way a 356, driven by us or anyone else, would win the event now. I must admit the race was a pretty lonely affair. Other than a terrific dice with the near-stock E-Type for a handful of laps as I reeled him in, before I managed to take him under brakes (before they faded!) at Murrays, I spent most of the race with no-one in front or in my mirrors, other than staying out the way of the Sports Racers. The excitement came from the endurance angle of the racing, rather than racing against others. Given the cars increasing competitiveness it would be good to compete against more comparable machines, say in the pre-63 GT series, where we would probably be mid–pack, enjoying a lot more cut and thrust racing. But we're getting ahead of ourselves. There's a championship to contend and a car to develop for this year.
And the proudest moment? Being able to rip the yellow and black novice sticker off the back of the car! Thanks again to Mav (and Andy) for crewing for the weekend - couldn't do it without them.
'53 356 Pre-A (a box of bits!)
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)
http://www.pushrod.org
http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)
http://www.pushrod.org
http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
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Mitch
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Re: 356 Race Car
Another exciting race report and great to have the behind the scenes drama; a real insight to stuff that happens when racing and how you've sorted it. Hats off to you guys! 
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steve wright
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Re: 356 Race Car
Thanks Mitch. We do a debrief in the pub after the race and draw up a list of things that broke, need developing, or ideas we have. Thankfully the list is getting smaller each race, with less fundamental stuff on it. Snetterton last year was "no brakes, clutch exploded, fan-belt came off and almost cooked the motor, oil spewed from old breather pipes fitted by previous owner, etc, etc). This year it was just "don't fit new front shoes right before a 220 mile race"!
'53 356 Pre-A (a box of bits!)
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)
http://www.pushrod.org
http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)
http://www.pushrod.org
http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
-
steve wright
- DDK rules my life!
- Posts: 1036
- Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:17 pm
Re: 356 Race Car
'53 356 Pre-A (a box of bits!)
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)
http://www.pushrod.org
http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)
http://www.pushrod.org
http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
- KS
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john ruston
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Re: 356 Race Car
It's Silverstone this weekend.
What lap time for the various 356's inPre 63.
As close to breaking 3 40 as possible .
What lap time for the various 356's inPre 63.
As close to breaking 3 40 as possible .
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one-two
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Re: 356 Race Car
That would be a very hot lap John. At the last meet on the GP circuit earlier this year only one of the early 911s got down to that time.
Robert Barrie Limited
+44 7775 518337
https://www.robertbarrielimited.com/
info@robertbarrielimited.com
+44 7775 518337
https://www.robertbarrielimited.com/
info@robertbarrielimited.com
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john ruston
- DDK forever
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Re: 356 Race Car
Car did a 43 last year with no brakes so a 41.5 would be superb.
We will see!
Got to get close to those Elites and that pesky Morgan
We will see!
Got to get close to those Elites and that pesky Morgan
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steve wright
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Re: 356 Race Car
John, presume the lap time was a typo, you could walk the GP circuit in 3.40
Presume you were talking about a target lap time of 2.40? Which is quick. Fastest Porsche last year at the Classic was a 2.43 from the Carrera GTL, then 2.46 from a Pre-A. Fastest Elite was a 2.38 which is going at a heck of a pace.
'53 356 Pre-A (a box of bits!)
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)
http://www.pushrod.org
http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)
http://www.pushrod.org
http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk


