Okrasa Special

[911hillclimber]

This is proving to be much harder to fathom out!

Admirable patience on everyone's behalf, but such detail worked on the front/middle section, so we are all eager to see it work at the rear.

Would a 1/8 scale half model (whatever the term used is for a clay model built onto a centre line mirror) have been useful way back? Maybe a 3D cad model has overtaken that stage now!

looking forward to the final matrix of wood forms and some more wheeling.

[Pandora]

you are of course correct that a model would normally be an important stage in evolving the final form, but in this instance, I have a pretty good idea what Steve is after, so using the fixed points from the car and from the prvious steps, it is as quick to work this way. I would also say that working at anything less then 1:5 scale for the model means you have a similar level of 'guestimation' of the exact location of points when you go throough this process of scaling up to full size sections.

It certainly isn't as quick to demostrate 3D progress as the wire tecnique, but once I have gone through this stage, I can post tracings down to Barry and he can cut the shapes out and quite quickly he will have the 3D jigsaw.

So it's a longer and trickier route to getting a 3D shape, but the 'reward' (hopfully) is that the end result is what we want.

What's a 3D Cad model? that doesn't sound like a 1961 solution

[911hillclimber]

Yes, 1/8 was just to 'scale' things, and the larger the better.
Way back in this forming I thought the wire method/brown paper was very good, maybe using thinner wire to make it easier to re-configure?

At work we use 3D for everything in design (not car related now, my automotive days are long behind me) but I'm still a pen-and-paper old school type.

There was a great 2d digitiser at Race Retro scanning a model of a vintage part (water pump) so pattern making on a 3d printer.....

Great thread!

[Pandora]

Weirdly (and whilst Barry is checking some dimensions for me on the car) I picked up a magazine and in an advert I saw an Alfa GT


Alfa Romeo GT Junior - Exterior

Take heart! a proportionately wide roof with a similar glazing layout CAN look good!

I just don't know how I didn't recognise the similarity earlier?

Anyway, Barry's just rung with the necessary dimensions, so I've got a car to design......

Al

[steve wright]

Wow, looks great Al. I just clocked the time you posted the drawings: my name is going to be muck in your house! And I thought I was pushing it with a 10.30 on Sunday night scrapping gearbox oil, sand and tar off the underside of a 356...

I agree with the way you've gone with the rear arch treatment and can understand your comment now regarding the less aggressive curvature on the rear Kamm tail - I couldn't see the problem this was causing until now. The only comment I've got is that I'm keen on creating a rear wing with the same leading edge as the Porsche Abarth GTL - do we need to Factor that in yet? Looking good and great to see it evolving: makes me feel better seeing the complexity in it given how Barry and i struggled! Cheers Steve

[Pandora]

Yeah, hadn't realised the time 'till I went to bed. Time flies when you're having fun!

But, Eh, Abarth GTL?
Like this?
http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Porsch ... por_02.jpg

Not sure about that. Or is there another GTL? Or do you mean the 'haunch' between the door and the rear arch? (he says with a note of hope, as the rear end is quite a bit different to what's emerging this evening, which is a lot more 275 than that......)

Al

[Pandora]

Just re-read your post, and I think you do mean the area between the door and the axle line. (please God, let it be so! )

Having spoken to Barry over the last couple of days, mu plan is to get sections to set out the main parameters, basically focussing on the area from the axle line back, and then the top of the wings, the transition from the bootlid upper surface and into the Kamm tail lip I'll / we'll rely a lot more on the foam and sculpting for the final shape. This is also true of the area of flank betwen the rear arch and the trailign edge of the door. there isn't actually too much volume in the shaping in the shaping of the GTL wing by the look of it, so I'm sure we can include something along those lines. Foan is ideal for that.

I've made the assumtion on the rear wheel clearance that I allowed far too much, so have reduced it to a decent balance between giving it hips and risking it looking under-tyred. also allows for Spacers or wider wheels in the future.

will post up some photos of the Latest progress shortly.

[Pandora]

This is the plan view of the car showing the profile where the wing widens out at the rear arch and ties into the current door. It also shows the depth we have to play with between the arch and the roof at the C Pillar (Thanks to Barry for the measurements to give me the rear curve of the roof at the base of the screen)

The red profiles I have already created, the green is the rear axle line, and the blue are the sections still to be created. I've also scribbled on the order I'll tackle them, in case anyone want's that much detail!

Here is the revised rear panel showing the inner and outer profiles, and the 'peak' of the Kamm tail lip spoiler.



You'll see that I've sketched on a bootlid opening. This looks narrow in these views, and the wing wide, but this is a classic trick - the wing might look like it's half the width of the plan at the moment, but will actually be nearer 1/4 by the time it is mirrored. Confusing!

It's just stketched in to give an idea of where the shut lines will be as they will figure in where the transitions of the forms fall as the bootlid transitions into the rear wing top.

All going well so far.......

Al

[Pandora]

Oh sh*T it's happened again!

off to bed!



Al

[steve wright]

Hey. Sorry for any confusion Al, posted the comments in a hurray at Heathrow. Yes, I meant the area between the door and the axle line! Another 1am job - your wife must be an understanding lady

Cheers Steve

[Pandora]

Tonights update:



The important thing to notice is not the pretty lines (these are the cross sections at 100, 300 and 500mm behind the rear axle linem and the rear panel,) but the white roll of paper in front of the board......

Yup, all finished for this stage, all traced and marked up with noches so Barry knows how to cut them out so they all slot together in the right orientation on the box.

In the post to you tomorrow Barry.

and see, having done all that I'll even manage an early night!

I'm already looking forward to the next phase which will be a bit more 'hands on' in terms of sculpting the forms.

Over to you Barry.......

(has anyone else noticed this has become something of a correspondence course in car body design?)

Al

[steve wright]

Al, you are a star

[Barry]

Al, you are a star

What he said /\ .

I've only just caught up with the latest posts on this thread, and it's been fasinating seeing how Al has approached this.

As I've suspected for a long time, Steve and I had little chance of accidently hitting a decent solution to our woes, and it's genuinely wonderful to have this side of the process being tackled by someone as able as Al, and just having someone to talk through the practical side of working up the design is going to be invaluable.

Top stuff, and really looking forward to cutting some MDF as soon as the templates arrive, so we can see how we're doing .

[Pandora]

Barry, I should have mentioned earlier, don't search jigh and low for the sections 7&8 from the above plan in the bundle, they aren't there! I thought that there was little point in drawing those ones, bearing in mind Steve's wish for the GTL style crease, so we'll just form them in the foam.

Cheers,

Al

[Pandora]

Latest from the spy-cam in Barry's workshop........

http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/magazin ... wsletter18



Al