I know what you're thinking...

mak600 · Post by **mak600** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:38 pm

looks absolutely beautiful...

but if anyone's in any doubt the market's way, way overheated, then surely this car, (in fairness, amongst many others) should negate such doubts.

no offence, but that's ridiculous money.

yoda · Post by **yoda** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:16 pm

Hi

While I can't really comment on the appropriateness of the price, I can say this is probably the best early 911 I have seen (in terms of condition). It's pretty unbelievable.

I can see the attraction if you want to just sit and look at it or put it in a museum but I expect you would want to drive it carefully if you put it on the road.

It's a truly stunning car.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:38 pm

kitesurfer2 wrote:85k for that is a suckers price. No doubt they hope one will come along soon.

It's not a sucker's price, it's a perfectionist's price.

You couldn't restore a car to this condition at any price, nevermind £85k.

Clearly it's not worth £85k to everyone, Jason would rather go faster in an S some folks would rather buy a new 911, but if you have £85k and you want an early car as good as it gets in originality, history and detail, this is it.

When we were approached about the car and the owner told us what he'd paid at RS (a lot more than $50k!) and what it owed him in total, we told him we wouldn't get it all back, which we won't even at this price, but he paid it because he wanted perfection and so will the next person. Sadly in his pursuit of perfection the restoration bill on his 356 Speedster - which was bought as a 'recently restored' car last year but isn't happy with - is getting terrifying and the yellow car needs to go.

It's not a problem that you can't see the value in this car, but the previous buyer (and the next one) certainly aren't suckers, they're perfectionists, people for whom a £30k or £50k car just isn't good enough. Now I've seen this car, I don't think any early car will ever be good enough again.

210bhp · Post by **210bhp** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:42 pm

Sam @ PS Autoart wrote:It's canary yellow. I think the code is 6842.

I'm not sure that is correct. Would it be possible to put a photo up here or on your website of the paint tag?

Regards
Mike

Lightweight_911 · Post by **Lightweight_911** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:31 pm

Canary Yellow is 6824 - ie last two digits reversed

Sam · Post by **Sam** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:44 pm

Sorry, yes - 6824.

kitesurfer2 · Post by **kitesurfer2** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:58 pm

Although most of us support healthy long term prices for classic Porsches, it is in no-ones interest to allow this obvious bubble to develop further.

As 72911E says, the fact is;- this 43000 mile 2 litre car was sold fairly recently for a realistic amount around £34k. It was described in a similar manner at that time, ie near perfection etc,

If the current owner owes more than £85k as Sam says, where(Apart from import vat, say £5k) has £50,000 gone?

If the bubble bursts it burns the fingers of anyone trying to buy a classic Porsche right now and there will be plenty of people left feeling they were suckers, just like last time.

Whist I understand and applaud Sam for his effort in selling the services of PS Autoart on this forum PS do not own the car and obviously have an interest in asking as high a price as possible.

Did they not feel this car was special enough to invest in it themselves?

Presumably when the current owner asked how much they would offer for cash, there was some teeth sucking and a price far less than £85k being asked.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:54 pm

kitesurfer2 wrote:As 72911E says, the fact is;- this 43000 mile 2 litre car was sold fairly recently for a realistic amount around £34k. It was described in a similar manner at that time, ie near perfection etc,

That's the difference - it wasn't bought at that figure. It was a whole lot more.

If the current owner owes more than £85k as Sam says, where(Apart from import vat, say £5k) has £50,000 gone?

VAT is 20% and import duty is 10% and both of those are on a higher figure.

If the bubble bursts it burns the fingers of anyone trying to buy a classic Porsche right now and there will be plenty of people left feeling they were suckers, just like last time.

*If* the alleged bubble bursts we get our fingers burnt a lot harder than someone who owns one classic!

Unless Alan, Nick et al drop their rates to £10 an hour and Porsche drop their prices by 50% it will continue to cost substantially more to restore one of these cars properly than to buy a good one and thankfully the value of them isn't just in 'investment' it's in pride of ownership, enjoyment of driving and cost of restoration vs. cost of purchase.

Some classic car values are driven purely by investment potential but 911 owners are a little less Gordon Gecko about the whole thing and tend to buy carefully and sensibly. We're not talking 250GTO money here and we're not talking about the same type of buyer either. 99% of classic 911 buyers are enthusiasts, not collectors.

Whist I understand and applaud Sam for his effort in selling the services of PS Autoart on this forum PS do not own the car and obviously have an interest in asking as high a price as possible.

Thanks. Of course we want to sell a car for as much as possible, both from our perspective and the owner's.

Wouldn't you?

Presumably when the current owner asked how much they would offer for cash, there was some teeth sucking and a price far less than £85k being asked.

Yes, that's right. It's what dealers do!

I'm more than happy to concede the point that this car is expensive, I said that at the outset, but stand by the fact that it's not unreasonably so or inflated by any sort of 'market bubble'.

Come and have a look at it, bring along an averagely good T and see and feel the difference. I reckon you'll change your mind.

Sam[/quote]

IanMcLeod · Post by **IanMcLeod** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:14 pm

I'm not sure why everyone has a problem with this car and why it's price is being given so much meaning. This car in no way indicates where the market is for early cars. It does not tell you whether there is a bubble or not currently (and we could all debate that for hours LOL). It's way towards the tail of the bell curve.

It's a one off unique car that is up for a one off unique price. If there is one of those buyers out there it will sell, if not it won't. 99% of early owners wouldn't go near it at that price but this car is not aimed at that 99%.

Ian.

kitesurfer2 · Post by **kitesurfer2** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:18 pm

On a positive note the car looks great and Sam good luck with the sale.

Perhaps you can let us all know how much cash you as a dealer would pay right now for a similar car?

Cortina · Post by **Cortina** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:09 am

I suspect there is no "similar car" ....... therefore question is possibly null and void ??

Sam · Post by **Sam** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:27 am

This car in no way indicates where the market is for early cars....
It's a one off unique car that is up for a one off unique price. If there is one of those buyers out there it will sell, if not it won't. 99% of early owners wouldn't go near it at that price but this car is not aimed at that 99%....

This

On a positive note the car looks great and Sam good luck with the sale.

Thanks.

Perhaps you can let us all know how much cash you as a dealer would pay right now for a similar car?

Happy to explain the theory, I'd get thrown out of the Dealer's Circle if I gave exact figures, but I'm sure you can have a good guess at the margins

:

With limited funds to use I need to think carefully about where to put a big lump like £80k. For that I could buy five £15k cars - 993s, 3.2s, whatever - that may well sell more quickly and easily and will each have a margin in them.

Therefore from an £80k car with a potentially more limited market I need usefully more than five times the margin on a £15k car for it to make sense.

As you can imagine, with me needing this sort of difference between what I pay and the asking price of said £80k car, most folk prefer consigning them for sale. It's financially better for them and more fair - if a car sells quickly and well they benefit too, rather than just me.

Hope that makes sense.

Oh, and :

VAT is 20% and import duty is 10% and both of those are on a higher figure.

I'm wrong on this bit of course - VAT is 20% now but would have been 15% or 17.5% at the time of import.

Nick Moss · Post by **Nick Moss** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:36 am

I'm wrong on this bit of course - VAT is 20% now but would have been 15% or 17.5% at the time of import.

And duty should have been £50 for a personal import.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:50 am

Oh.