Okrasa Special

[Bruce M]

Might be worth trying blank high gloss magzine paper. Would probably be white but any darker shade would be even better to show the highlights.

Something like 45GSM is a similar weight to newsprint, I think.

Now if only you could find someone would works in the magazine publishing industry and might be able to source some roll-ends of paper from a friendly printer ....... hmmm.......

[Barry]

Good idea .

We probably won't get too hung up on the issue though: blank paper will be O.K. if nothing else should appear in the meantime. I think in truth we're there in terms of basic shape anyway, and would be surprised if there are any major changes to come. Lots of detail tweaks no doubt, but this would probably be post-paper anyway.

As these things tend to happen, just as I'm getting some money aside for the next tax bill, and the workshop is bonkers busy (seven day weeks), another English wheel has cropped up. This time a full-sized Kendrick from the chaps at Eckold, in fact it's the very same one I used on the recent course. Fairly priced at £1750 but with no anvils (bottom wheels). Trouble is they need to see it gone before Christmas. The money's here, but to find a day to collect it, and then co-ordinate a Hiab at this end might be tight.

Have left a message with Steve Meekin transport who specialise in this sort of thing, and could sort both issues. Probably booked up though.

Anyway, if it comes off, the recent little Keetona can be moved on (£3-500 as it sits I would guess) to contribute to the deal. In fact, at least it saves me one restoration project .

[Barry]

Deal is done, money ready to go, and haulier booked.

There's a chance that it'll happen before Christmas, and the Eckold chaps have been very kind, and are sending an anvil (bottom wheel) down for me to borrow until the new ones are commisioned / delivered.

I'm now booked onto some more of their courses / lectures, so can return the borrowed anvil then.

Obviously I'm very much looking forward to getting the wheel, and can't wait to get to know it, but I have to say I'm terrified about the whole collection / delivery / moving side of things. In terms of weight, it's like having two grand pianos balanced upright on their keyboards. Yikes .

[911hillclimber]

It will be great. I for one very much look forward to your 'association' with the wheel and what can be done.
Bit of trial and error then get stuck-in!
Some pics will be nice when you can.

Graham.

[Barry]

Yes, I might separate out the wheel stuff into another thread, before the Okrasa gets completely buried .

But yes, it'll be great to be able to go up there and have an evening or ten of just getting my hand in, so to speak. I'll have to order up an 8x4 sheet of aluminium to play with.

Snow is unlikely to smooth things out though: it needs collecting early next week to secure it at the agreed price: time's ticking, snow's falling, nerves crumbling .

[Gary71]

Nice work getting a wheel I've always wanted to learn how to do that properly.

I remember showing two American Ford manufacturing engineers around the Aston plant soon after we were bought out and we stopped in the panel shop to watch two guys wheeling a bonnet of a late V8 Vantage.

They absolutely could not comprehend the rack of flat sheets that became panels before their eyes. Three days for two guys to make one bonnet. My kind of production engineering

Anyhow, if you need to practice I hear there is a E type around that requires a new rather curvier body

[Barry]

Well, I'd certainly like a curvy body to play with .... .

Very interesting that the bonnets took three days.

You very rarely get to see something like that being wheeled, so all you hear is the rumours, usually along the lines of 'there was this old boy, amazing he was, could make up the side of a car in an afternoon' .

Reassuring to hear that actually some of the very top craftsmen would take days over a panel .

I absolutely can't wait now: I suppose it's a bit of a turning point that I've been aiming for over the last few years. Really feels as though a lot of background work is coming togther: perfect project, ideal workshop and fantastic client. Now all I need to do is see just how this wheel thing works. I wonder if it comes with a plug .... .

[911hillclimber]

From the bodies I've seen in the past the task is not just the roll but the joins. Sometimes you see the joins in quite bizzar places. I guess you will find these 'appear' naturally as these panels shape?

Bit like the front repair panels for 356's, cut along the wings in the least curvy places or the place where rust eventually dissapears!?

We share your impatience!

I think the plan was to get the car paper'd and outside for a few 'distant' shots to get a real feel for it against a curb.
Good luck if you have the snow we have....

[Barry]

Hi Graham,

yes, plenty of snow. As it happens I'm flat out dealing with the current 911 here at the moment anyway (I'm aiming to get John M's car on the jig before the Christmas break).

I'd like to get up to the workshop over the Cristmas break to mock up the second side.

After that we'll be waiting for the new suspension mods before getting it outside.

As for the joins in the panels, there're a few rules, and you try and put the joins:

1) Where join shares the amount of shaping between two panels 'fairly', i.e. it's generally better to put quite a bit of shape into two panels, than loads in one and next to none in the next.

2) Where the crown (shape) is at it's tightest, or at least, you avoid putting joins anywhere flat or nearly flat if possible. This is the reason that coachbuilders will rarely put in a door skin repair at the bottom. They'd always aim to wheel a taller repair that reaches up to a skin's feature line or where it starts to curve sharply inwards at the top. A tight curved (or feature-lined) area holds it's shape much, much better than a flat one, is easier to tap up and generally distorts much less.

3) Where the welds are going to be as short as possible. There's no point running a weld down, say, the whole of a rear wing return where it might go from the wing top to the edge of the boot for example, if you can make the panel a little wider, and simply join it top-n-bottom.

They're some of the principles as far as I can gather anyway, and the truth is you simply keep those in mind whilst deciding where each join will go.

Like most coachbuildy (new word!) things though, if you gave ten coachbuilders the same job, they would almost certainly approach it in ten different ways. There would be areas they'd do the same, but they would all vary quite a bit, even if the end result was identical once painted.

[Gary71]

Very interesting that the bonnets took three days.

The bonnets were three pieces, separately wheeled then welded together on the hammer form down the edges of the bonnet bulge. The badge recess was hammered in as the last touch

I spent many an hour gas welding the aluminium inners together, well more like melting large sections over the floor, but some welding was done!

[Barry]

Very interesting that the bonnets took three days.

The bonnets were three pieces, separately wheeled then welded together on the hammer form down the edges of the bonnet bulge. The badge recess was hammered in as the last touch

I spent many an hour gas welding the aluminium inners together, well more like melting large sections over the floor, but some welding was done!

Funny you say that: I was looking at the 911 bonnet yesterday, wondering how I could make them in aluminium. I pretty much concluded that you would do the outer shape in one piece (i.e. straight across), and then let in the lower part as a separate panel. An alternative might be to wheel it in one, then run cuts down it, and drop the centre, finally adding in the verticals. An alternative alternative (!) would be four sections, sides centre vent, and front.

Not sure actually, and at the mercy of someone just popping some ally in an existing press, so more an academic exercise than a real one. Door-skins more of a possibility though, and one of the cars booked requires them, plus some other interesting ally bits .

Poor Steve, to think this thread used to be about his car . Sorry Steve .

BTW, it was your comment about the bonnet badge recess being hammer-formed in at CLM that prompted me to suggest this to Steve (I might well regret this when I trash a complete clamshell for the sake of a little badge recess). It'd be a lovely detail, and we've certainly got in mind that the door handles will sit in, rather than on, the skin as well.

As for the welding, I certainly need to get my hand back in, not that I've done a huge amount anyway: mainly gas, although I've now got a second TIG, this one AC/DC so that's going to be useful for the non-gas areas. Nothing worse than coming up with an acceptable panel, only to reduce it back to liquid form .

Oh well, better be good, and get back out there ....

[Lightweight_911]

Funny you say that: I was looking at the 911 bonnet yesterday, wondering how I could make them in aluminium. ....

[haasad]

WOW that is spectacular!!!!

andy

[Barry]

That answers that then .

Very good (understatement ).

Much harder doing that sort of thing when the original shape is so well known and easy to compare (as opposed to ST / RSR arches etc where it seems to be accepted that they vary quite a bit).

[Gary71]

Fill an original wing with resin and make yourself a hammerform