rs

[gridgway]

Of course there's always the point of correctness ie the new part is the same as the old part. So if there is no difference between a shell used to build a T and a shell used to build an RS, then using a shell from a T to rebody is no different from using a shell from an RS to rebody.

So how different is a T shell to an RS shell? That needs an expert to answer.

However in the case of the car which is almost completely not 1316, how much of an RS can you replace and with what before it stops being an RS?

Now before anyone gets the wrong idea I think that "1316" is not 1316 as it has a different engine, a different gearbox and a different shell to that with which 1316 came out the factory (not to mention the intent to deceive).

So if "1316" had blown its engine and got a new RS one from Porsche, and a new gearbox from them and a new shell from them, would it be 1316 or only a facsimile?

Graham

[Vic Cohen]

If the original shell ,with new mechanicals, from where ever u like. if they were the same spec , not difficult to achieve its a Pukka car non matching numbers ..........................if u want to push it further Porsche will ' scrap ' crankcases if u send them ur old one and restamp with original numbers .................................there were only a certain number of body shells for each model , when they ve run out that s it ................i am not capable of giving u every diff between an rs shell and a T Nick might be able to..............................if u change the shell and its not original whetre s the provenance , whta history does it retain ?

[Mike Usiskin]

absolutely Vic, By the same token, IF one takes a T (even my stunning example ) and changes everything, seem welding etc etc etc it will still be a T, albeit with an obscene amount of money having been spent on it.

[gridgway]

absolutely Vic, By the same token, IF one takes a T (even my stunning example ) and changes everything, seem welding etc etc etc it will still be a T, albeit with an obscene amount of money having been spent on it.

Not at all. If we take your T plus one smacked up RS and put all the bits from the RS onto your T bodyshell (along with the VINs), then it'll be an RS. Well according to Andy Prill anyway

Graham

[gridgway]

I like this bit from the ad...

The car was deemed to be a genuine rebodied car by Andy Prill of Maxted Page ( a leading UK Porsche RS specialist ) and the case was won in favour of the car and Rauh motorsport. We have all the documentation connected with this and it will be supplied with the car The owner who instigated the action tried to deform the character of Rauh motorsport and the details are still unfortunately on the internet

It's very intriguing and I suspect wrong and I'd love to know how it went.

But I don't think the case was against Rauh motorsport, they had nothing to do with it. The case was between the most recent buyer (prior to the auction) and the seller who I think brought it into the UK from italy.

I don't think the winning of the case says that the report is deemed correct. We don't know why the case was won and lost. But I am very intrigued!

I assume that the "owner" mentioned is pesto360 so irrelevant at this point.

I love the story of "1316". Perhaps I should buy it!

Graham

[210bhp]

The ad can use all the twisting words, explanations and so called expert opinions it wants but the fact remains the ad is titled 'RS Carrera 2.7 Touring for sale' which is to say the least a misrepresentation. That title is clearly meant to draw someone in to buy something they think is real.

There are a few differences in an RS shell but would it be correct to lay them out in an open forum for all to see? There are to my knowledge, for instance, three RS's on the planet with chassis number #406 one of which apparently is a very, very good copy and has fooled more than one 'expert'.

Regards
Mike

[hot66]

If the original shell ,with new mechanicals, from where ever u like. if they were the same spec , not difficult to achieve its a Pukka car non matching numbers ..........................if u want to push it further Porsche will ' scrap ' crankcases if u send them ur old one and restamp with original numbers .................................there were only a certain number of body shells for each model , when they ve run out that s it ................i am not capable of giving u every diff between an rs shell and a T Nick might be able to..............................if u change the shell and its not original whetre s the provenance , whta history does it retain ?

now my memory is not what it used to be .... but I seem to remember this problem is huge in the blower bentley / jaguar & MG world. I'm sure there are some very famous ex racers that there are actually 2 off. We also have that case with a certain yellow RS that I believe each owner claims to have the genuine one ( original crashed, reshelled ..... old shell left around the back of a shed until many years later it is discovered & rebuilt ..... which car is the original ? )

[pmjt]

but I seem to remember this problem is huge in the blower bentley / jaguar & MG world.

An even bigger problem with Aston DB4GT Zagato From memory of the 15 'second sanction 2' cars, 18 survive

P

[Gary71]

but I seem to remember this problem is huge in the blower bentley / jaguar & MG world.

An even bigger problem with Aston DB4GT Zagato From memory of the 15 'second sanction 2' cars, 18 survive

P

There is an extra V8 Zagato as well... One was rolled down a mountain and rebuilt from the chassis plate The remains... well...

[gridgway]

On the pelican thread that has got going again, there is a comment from Mr Prill plus discussion of the engine number being forged as well!

Graham

[Nick Moss]

Another hour wasted reading up to date on Pelican, but nothing new apart from the transcription of Andy Prill's comments in reply to an email from one of the US posters.

[gridgway]

I thought the engine number being the wrong font was a new theme there.
Graham

[Nick Moss]

Graham, sorry I'm not blaming you for that! There are just so many inane posts in that thread that it's hard work to separate the wheat from the chaff. FYI here is the text from the eBay advert when Michael Rauh appears to be selling it, presumably before Pesto bought it (?)

The car was delivered to the Firm Otto Glöckler, the famous Porsche dealer who buildt the "Glöckler Spyder" Frankfurt/Germany on the 01.May 1973. First road registration in Germany was at the 01.July.1973. It was delivered with the touring package M 472, heated back Window M 102, Headrest left and right M 258, Sport Seat left and right M 409, no Radio (still is without) The car was original red, now it is painted in beautiful "Grand Prix White" with red lettering by the previous owner in the 80´s.

It´s a professional colour change inside and out. Car has NO sunroof. The suspension is newly adjusted and weight balanced.

The car is coming with Tool Kit, tire inflation bottle, Certificate of birth from Porsche, german Title, Owners manual and additional owners manual for RS cars (in German)

Now the car has a dual exhaust which has a fantastic sound, but if you like, you can have the original mounted. It has M 471 Door panels and rear Bumper. The Sport seats are real black leather.

Car has 4 new Bilsteins, welded in rsr strut in the trunk, 85 Ltr plastic fueltank, new original carpet, 4 new Bridgestone tires rear 225/50zr15 on 8" fuchs and front 205/50zr15 on 7" Fuchs rims. No cracks on the dashboard, very clean car with some little oil leaks on the mechanical fuel injection engine with 3.0 ltr pistons and cylinders. Engine is very powerful and runs great. Fuel injection system is redone. New engine wiring all new teflon rubber for the suspension. I can find no rust at the body anywhere.

You are welcome to look at this beauty and take it for a test drive, lift it up and check everything you want.

Mileage is in Kilometers; approx. 116.000km = 72.079 mls (on the odometer I´m sure these are original, but can´t guarantee this)

Car has a fresh service, everything works fine, but remember it´s an over 30 yerars old high-performance classic. Its a private sale, with no guarantee, please don´t bid if you don´t accept this. Car goes as "beautiful and fascinating" as is. It´s my private car, look at the car here and at the pictures. Mileage is in Kilometers!! Shipping will be arranged by me on new owners expense.(Just shipping cost, ill pay the transport to the port in Bremerhaven, 500 km´s) I´ll pay Ebay fee. Happy bidding and call for more details 00491752484911 Michael, but please note: we have a different time zone We are 8-hours forward.

If you want to come to see the car here in Germany, next airport is Nürnberg or Frankfurt am Main

It's interesting that the COA shows the first 5 digits of the build number. Anyone buying the car could have checked those numbers on the dashboard in a couple of minutes and realised the shell was not original. These pictures were not part of the ebay advert, but the mileage has changed on the non-original speedometer

[gridgway]

Where do you check the production number Nick?

Also looking at the ad, it's not even 2.7, it's 3.0?

Graham

[210bhp]

Where do you check the production number Nick?

Also looking at the ad, it's not even 2.7, it's 3.0?

Graham

That's probably best answered by pm.


Regards
Mike