356c starter problems?

Max Steiner · Post by **Max Steiner** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:36 pm

Hello everybody.
I hope someone can help!
I have a 356c 12 volt, I jumped in it this morning, turned the key, the starter turned but wouldn't fire and quickly got slower and slower until it flattened the battery, or so I thought!
I tried to jump start it with an engine running car and it made no difference, ie no extra power.
I tried a battery booster pack and still no extra power, I've now cleaned the earth strap from battery to car and from transmission to body as well as the positive terminals on the starter and battery.
I've checked the ignition switch and all seems ok.
If I leave the 356 for a while and then try again the starter turns a little and then just clicks.
I'm thinking new starter motor but am I missing something?!!
The radio works fine and so do the lights, windscreen wipers etc until I turn the key to start and it all dies indicating to me a flat battery but I've changed battery to a good one and it's the same lack of power.
I'm pulling my hair out now... can anyone give me a few ideas?!

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:05 pm

are you sure its a starter motor for a 12v system?

i ask because we were having trouble with ours untill we realised we still had the 6v starter trying to start a 12v car.

Max Steiner · Post by **Max Steiner** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:15 pm

Hi Helen,
Thanks for the response, no I'm not sure, I took the starter out but couldn't see a 12v or 6v stamping on it and I thought all 64 onward 356c's were 12 volt so assumed it was a 12 volt, my old campervan still has the 6volt starter but with 12 volt electrics, it spins faster but starts well with no problems so what problems did you have?
Thanks again.

Mick · Post by **Mick** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:22 pm

Hi
Have you tried another battery? if so starter would appear to be problem.
Boosting a shot battery is no good.

Max Steiner · Post by **Max Steiner** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:25 pm

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the reply, yes, tried a good battery and the same problem, I agree it does indicate the starter but I just feel I may be missing something!!
Thanks again.

Mick · Post by **Mick** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:25 pm

Sorry see you have changed battery

:

Mick · Post by **Mick** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:29 pm

Are you in a position to put jump leads directley to starter Pos and starter body to eliminate car wiring??

roy mawbey · Post by **roy mawbey** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:34 pm

Hi Max,

First of all visit the following site www.356registry.com. When it opens in the top address bar click "technical info and articles" then click on the list trouble shooting and repair. Then click: "starter trouble shooting problems"

The file that is shown is great a one page flow chart that you follow down in sequence for your model I presume a T6 "C". You will see all the checks to be made to resolve.

I had very slow cranking on my 6volt "A" model particulary when the engine was hot. I did all your checks earths etc, checked the brushes, checked starter connections and it turned out to be the "bush" that supports the starter motor output shaft in the transmissions bell housing.
If the bush is worn the shaft is not supported properly and it affects the internal operation of the starter.

However if your problem is one that has just occured and it operated well say last week, then you need to make the checks as they show on the fault finding page. ( It could be a number of things causing it )

Hope you find it after looking.

Roy

Max Steiner · Post by **Max Steiner** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:42 pm

Mick wrote:Are you in a position to put jump leads directley to starter Pos and starter body to eliminate car wiring??

Hi Mick.
Not without climbing under up on axle stands and I don't like the idea of it!!

Max Steiner · Post by **Max Steiner** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:46 pm

roy mawbey wrote:Hi Max,

First of all visit the following site www.356registry.com. When it opens in the top address bar click "technical info and articles" then click on the list trouble shooting and repair. Then click: "starter trouble shooting problems"

The file that is shown is great a one page flow chart that you follow down in sequence for your model I presume a T6 "C". You will see all the checks to be made to resolve.

I had very slow cranking on my 6volt "A" model particulary when the engine was hot. I did all your checks earths etc, checked the brushes, checked starter connections and it turned out to be the "bush" that supports the starter motor output shaft in the transmissions bell housing.
If the bush is worn the shaft is not supported properly and it affects the internal operation of the starter.

However if your problem is one that has just occured and it operated well say last week, then you need to make the checks as they show on the fault finding page. ( It could be a number of things causing it )

Hope you find it after looking.

Roy

Thanks Roy, I did see the flow chart, I don't like the idea of climbing underneath to jump the power sounds dangerous!!
I read about the bush and did wonder, I might take the starter out again!!
Thanks again.

Mick · Post by **Mick** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:50 pm

Hi
Agreed if you have no access to a lift then a bit awkward,Roys suggestion a good idea.

Winston Teague · Post by **Winston Teague** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:26 pm

Hi Max, Do not try to jump lead the motor direct unless you can fit a different battery cable to the stud, there isn't enough room to get a croc clip under there without touching something else. Always disconnect the battery when doing anything to the starter motor. I had a brown trouser moment after fiddling with the solenoid lead and having a very small split second short off a screwdriver whilst fumbling in the dark on a 4 post lift. It turned out the short was against a stainless braided brake hose and it punctured the inner pipe. NO BRAKES at the first give way on my way home. Starters can fail quickly but this really does sound like a dead battery/faulty earth strap/faulty main battery cable from battery to starter. Are the cable ends at the battery getting hot? If so the starter is drawing a big current and therefore is trying to overcome some friction.....suspect the bushes, or an internal short in the motor. Also, and this may sound daft, keep going back thru previous tests as the process of checking and fettling can cause or exacerbate other snags with 45 year old cables.
Good luck
Winston

roy mawbey · Post by **roy mawbey** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:37 pm

Max,

Only a point but I think its likely your T6 might have been converted later to 12V and is running with a 12 v generator and 12 V voltage regulator but still probably with the 6v starter and matching flywheel.

I might be wrong but "C" 's had 6volt but could of course run on 12v after conversion. I know my 63 C was 6v and don't think it changed for the 64/65 cars?? ( someone confirm if I am wrong please on that )

Was the starter all okay before it went down to a slow crank?

Roy

Max Steiner · Post by **Max Steiner** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:18 pm

Winston Teague wrote:Hi Max, Do not try to jump lead the motor direct unless you can fit a different battery cable to the stud, there isn't enough room to get a croc clip under there without touching something else. Always disconnect the battery when doing anything to the starter motor. I had a brown trouser moment after fiddling with the solenoid lead and having a very small split second short off a screwdriver whilst fumbling in the dark on a 4 post lift. It turned out the short was against a stainless braided brake hose and it punctured the inner pipe. NO BRAKES at the first give way on my way home. Starters can fail quickly but this really does sound like a dead battery/faulty earth strap/faulty main battery cable from battery to starter. Are the cable ends at the battery getting hot? If so the starter is drawing a big current and therefore is trying to overcome some friction.....suspect the bushes, or an internal short in the motor. Also, and this may sound daft, keep going back thru previous tests as the process of checking and fettling can cause or exacerbate other snags with 45 year old cables.
Good luck
Winston

Thanks Winston
I think I'll have to go over everything again!

Max Steiner · Post by **Max Steiner** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:20 pm

roy mawbey wrote:Max,

Only a point but I think its likely your T6 might have been converted later to 12V and is running with a 12 v generator and 12 V voltage regulator but still probably with the 6v starter and matching flywheel.

I might be wrong but "C" 's had 6volt but could of course run on 12v after conversion. I know my 63 C was 6v and don't think it changed for the 64/65 cars?? ( someone confirm if I am wrong please on that )

Was the starter all okay before it went down to a slow crank?

Roy

Thanks again Roy,
I thought 1964 was when they went 12 volt so yes I'd also be very interested to find out, I can only seem to find 6 volt starters on line so that may be the answer!