2.7 CIS Tear Down - No 5 Big end gone !

impmad2000 · Post by **impmad2000** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:47 pm

OK, so I've taken a punt on a 2.7 CIS engine on ebay. Reported to be chuffing a bit on the OS bank. I'm hoping its just a head stud. Here goes nothing !!
Here's the engine

I'ts got pressure fed cam tensioners and Turbo valve covers, so not all bad whatever happens !

Now lets see what is under all the CIS stuff

Quick sell it now its clean !!

Anyone know what thsse numbers mean ?

Just as it starts to look better, I keep going !!

This doesn't look too bad, all of the head studs are there and still done up.
This isn't too clever, McTuff the Butcher has been here then !

But Pressure fed tensioners, and newish timing chains (Split link)
Should there be an O ring where the tensioner oil feed goes in ?
No Ring on this side, cleverly sealed with rust !!

No 1 Exhaust rocker pivot bearing has moved, and the head studs on No 1 (lower two) are loose. Perhaps this is the problem ? I'll keep looking.

I think heads off next.
Cheers
Tim

Matt black70 · Post by **Matt black70** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:33 pm

Good luck Tim, I hope it all goes to plan. Will we be seeing non CIS pistons and new cams while it's apart?.

Matt

impmad2000 · Post by **impmad2000** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:39 am

The idea is NOT to spend money on this engine. Pop it back together with minimum expendiaturre (Here's hoping !!) and re build the 2.4 properly (Hi compression, twin spark)

On the 2.7, so far Ive found badly worn rockers and a funny clonk noise as the engine goes over centre

so I'm not hopeful.
Ho Hum !!

hot66 · Post by **hot66** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:19 am

its like Mike Bainbrides masterclass all over again

At least you havn't found what we did on that engine @ Mikes

BTW, we will be having a follow up masterclass towards teh end of the year where we'll tear down the bottom end of said motor

impmad2000 · Post by **impmad2000** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:26 am

Excellent. I'm in

I have stripped the bottom end down already on th e other engine. It's putting them bnack together that I've not tried yet

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:57 pm

hot66 wrote:
BTW, we will be having a follow up masterclass towards teh end of the year where we'll tear down the bottom end of said motor

Sounds good to me

.

impmad2000 · Post by **impmad2000** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:15 pm

Oh boglox ! Chuffing a bit he said !!
By the state of No 5 Big end it must have sounded like a something was trying to hammer it's way out !!
The strip down has has releaved some "play" in the big end of No 5. It must measure in millimeters !!
So much for the "chuck in" engine.... I'm gutted ! I should never have wasted my money Argh !!!
Rockers are 70% rubbish, LH cam is badly worn and pitted. I'm guessing the crank will need a re-grind if the wear has been allowed to get that bad !! Looking at the heads, I'm guessing that the valve guides will require replacing as the heads are quite sooted up !
OK, can someone give me a suggestion of my best re-build options now !!
A 2.4T stripped down, A 2.7CIS stripped down. The cranks are the same (yes?) the 2.7 is a 90mm bore and the 2.4 84mm, but what is the best heads to go with. I was always thinking Hi compression 2.4. but perhaps I have some different options now ?

Lightweight_911 · Post by **Lightweight_911** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:28 pm

That's a bummer Tim !

If the crank from the CIS engine is damaged & requires a regrind I wouldn't bother - bearings are very difficult to find & very expensive if/when you do !

All 2.4 & 2.7 heads (& in fact 2.2 heads) are essentially the same - same combustion chamber & valve sizes - with the exception of the port sizes, so it's a case of picking the best ones from what you've got.

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:52 pm

What a pi55er

I think the only way forward is as Andy said. Strip both engines and measure up everything and see what you need to make one good motor.

Ian Donkin · Post by **Ian Donkin** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:01 pm

Lightweight_911 wrote:If the crank from the CIS engine is damaged & requires a regrind I wouldn't bother - bearings are very difficult to find & very expensive if/when you do !

Gutted for you Tim, but when we knew Charlotte's engine was poorly the option of an unknown quantity to step in as temporary replacement never really appealed to me for the very reasons you are now finding...

If you do need a set of bearings to cope with .25 undersize following a crank regrind, I have the very same in stock as I thought I would be needing them however my crank for the eventual 2.4 rebuild stayed within tollerance for standard bearings when it was polished.

Yours for an equitable donation to McMillain if you chose to go down that route.

impmad2000 · Post by **impmad2000** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:28 pm

Nice discolouration around the big end is the clue to what lies underneath. Note the blueing of the crank on the adjacent main bearing.

Check out the bits of bearing shell mashed out of the sides of the bearing.

This is what it looks like opened up

I'm guessing this won't be in tollerance !!

I knew it was a gamble, but I've now got a later oil pump, pressure fed tensioners, turbo valve covers and a box of spares. Shame it wasn't all to plan, but I've got to look on the bright side.
I also have a pair of 7R cases for sale, now where is that post in the wanted section....
Thanks for the offer Ian, I may take you up on that. I need to get my original crank measured.
Thanks Andy, I thought that was the case.
Cheers
Tim

Lightweight_911 · Post by **Lightweight_911** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:20 pm

Looks like that section of the crank got pretty hot ...

It might be an idea to dismantle the oil pump & see if any bits of the bearing shell passed thro' it.

impmad2000 · Post by **impmad2000** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:23 pm

Lightweight_911 wrote:It might be an idea to dismantle the oil pump & see if any bits of the bearing shell passed thro' it.

I agree. Are the internals serviceable ?

Bertroex · Post by **Bertroex** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:15 am

Argh, what a nightmare scenario.

Sorry to see that Tim.... Here is hoping that you could recover some of the financial outlay....

Bert

912uk · Post by **912uk** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:40 am

Sorry to hear that Tim.. at least you got to fly a big kite in Southampton that day.. if that helps to soften the blow..

We both agreed it was a punt on Ebay and at least you have some parts to trade with.. Agreed it's a shame the engine wasn't as good as it was..

Sorry to hear the bad news..

What's the cost to rebuild over what you can get for the engine once it's rebuilt?