Att: AFN car owners

[IanM]

Please show your original maintenance record book (you can hide the chassis no. if you want) as I'd like to know if there were any book style / title changes throughout the longhood years of UK supplied RHD cars.

Thanks in advance.

[911MRP]

Hi Ian

Never bothered to figure out how to post pictures here since I am only occasional poster (just 100th post since 2010!)

Some comments however ...

The small document print reference xxx.xx etc inside the front page is useful and can be decoded. Suffix is language and country market/s eg English NA vs English ROW. First digits of prefix dictate marketing or technical and last two the publication type. Got the key to decode this somewhere.

Often also shown in print reference copyright etc is the print run quantity and month of publication which might be quite useful if your quest is to determine accurately the different editions, dates and quantities of the various maintenance books pre impact bumper era PCGB EG c16 cars.

Fortunately I have the original maintenance record for my EG c16 RHD car ( plus lots of other documents -- even got its factory production order aka build sheet) plus a few random orphan maintenance booklets from other cars picked up at swap meets etc. Things that caught my eye having been around the early 911 scene for quite a long time. Not sure how many of these random orphan ones are from UK from PCGB.

There were certainly differences early to late model year 73 booklets here in UK. One orphan for sure is a maintenance record for a model RHD EG c16 T registered in UK late in the model year that had a fire and was written off but heard rumour that it rose again -- Phoenix like -- if true booklet might be of interest to current owner assuming that car is still on the road. It is different to my early model 73 book which in turn is different from model 72 book.

Reading your post reminds me I should let this spare orphan maintenance books from various geographies go to other homes but not sure how to reunite them if chassis still exist or maybe sell to literature folks who might just like to own such things as they're gathering dust on shelf here.

There are of course classic reprints these days and a pal even made faithful copies for 72 that still resurface and sometimes fool the unknowing but assume you are interested in original genuine. Created when he was a printer when a handful of us early owners used to meet in the Rose of York Richmond Hill on the third weds of the month way back in the early 90s

Be interesting to see if your post/ thread and investigation gets any traction at all.

HtH

S

[IanM]

I didn't know they were coded. Thanks.

I'll PM you my email address. Email me the picture(s) and I'l post it for you if you don't mind.

Got the key to decode this somewhere.

That would be great.

[911MRP]

Not sure I where I've got it but fairly easy and works like this for most literature from early 70s. Not a secret so someone more into literature might have the literature ID decode key to hand. It is like the many that explain how to decode Porsche numbers but less well known than chassis decoder.

Format of the Porsche document ID reference usually looks like one I've got for the late British market 73T orphan that I mentioned in earlier post:

It is possible this format is some DIN standard print ID being for German company?

4309.20 100 VII 73 M Decodes as follows:

First two digits denote "functional" type of publication ....first digit 4 denotes "technical and service" so is the one relevant to your question, whereas 1 denotes "sales and marketing"

The second digit of that pair denotes the functional sub type for example Iirc 46 is "owners manual" and more relevant to your question 43 denotes it as "maintenance record" book

Next two digits (in this case 09) of the four are Porsche internal unique identifier they used to denote the specific document item within the 43 functional category. Not sure there is a rationale for decoding those numbers position 3&4 of the string or maybe those two are just sequential in context of 43 ?

After dot ...first digit indicates " broadly" the language of the document .2x being English
...second digit denotes the languagethe intended market. In this case .20 being English for RoW markets so places where English is spelt properly so UK, Aus, SA and so forth
Where's .21 is used in markets where words spelt 'merican Therefire North American markets of USA Canada and maybe some others in that region too?
(Having said that the translations from what I presume were German originals to .20 British English still have some odd random use of americanisms color vs colour tire vs tyre abhorations being common place by Porsche even in .20 publications but generally it is possible to see the style of the English change as authors or translators try to tweak English to the NA or English speaking ROW accordingly. If you have them, do compare the luxury 72/73 big format so called luxury 72/3 brochures ones with the front cover Ivory E tail picture page by page between the .20 and .21 versions to see the difference in attempts to tailor to the .20 Row vs NA .21 to market specific style of speech !!! There are 72 and 73 versions of this but also .20 .21 variation is evident in addition to pictures bring changed.

The next block (optional) denotes quantity produced in the relevant document's print run -- in this case 100 copies printed on that print run.

The next block first two digits denote date of first printing xx giving month -- i have seen Roman numeral used like this for July or others regular digits used too. The yy obviously being actual print year in this case 1972 (not the model year)

On the evidence here it seems 100 copies were printed as late as July 73 bearing TES and Carrera RS model lineup for the English speaking ROW market even though the lineup of the Porsche models in UK / ROW was set to change imminently post shutdown in Sept for arrival of the impact bumper range!

If I come across the literature ID decode key I'll send it but this decoding from memory ought to get you started on your task in hand. Particularly if folks now choose to post their British maintenance record books with the .20 suffix small print on reverse of (inside) front page it shouldn't take you long to build the chronology your trying to do as I'm guessing there would be a handful British variants.

I'll be intrigued to see from your collation the variation/s 4309.20 ??? ??/?? model 73 early vs late for printing dates prior to VII 73 as I am aware of at least one nuance of early ones but will await what gets now posted by others -- if anything.


HtH

PS I've a vague recollection that the number inside stars that sometimes seen printed on the inside of some maintenance books cross references the maintenance book with its unique *xxxxxxxx* number to a specific chassis vin. Presumably this cross reference got noted / signed for on delivery. The acceptance card in 73 didn't any longer include the a book reference nor have I seen a unique book *xxxxxx* -- just engine and chassis in 73. I think this unique maintenance record Book identifier might've got discontinued but afaik at one time each maroon maintenance book has it's own *xxxxxx* number inside on reverse if front page but if I recall correct not (always) seen later longhood. Maybe that printed book code was discontinued as the paper Kardex system was replaced by modern warranty system on computer as Kardex wound down. TBH my interest is 72/3 era not for earlier 911 model so could be I'm wrong on this recollection/assumption?

Always open to learn or be correct by "experts" as this is just a little hobby for me.

[Darren65]

I shared this story back in 2012..... viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38590&start=15

Originals handbooks for my Mongrel which had been kept by a previous owner back in the 1980's which he sent to me when I tracked him down a few years ago....















Cheers,

[911MRP]

Hi Darren

Hope all is well with you. Thanks, that 204799* (single star at end) is example of the number I was referring to on reverse/inside front page . From memory thought it had two stars "book ending" the digits but obviously my memory for such useless detail squirrelled away is obviously failing me. Pretty sure this type of number wasn't printed on all the later similar books by time of model year 73 but was on some -- it will be interesting to see from any other posts if that is the case. If so, be interesting when that number stopped appearing on these.

Regarding the 4306.20 on yours the rationale for the last two digits 43xx.20 could be that number got the xx incremented with each new edition of that publication. I say that because from Ian via PM I now know he has one from 69 with 4304.20 and my example used to explain system above (probably by VII/73 the last of British longhood edition of maintenance record book) is 4309. Five editions possibly about right in that elspsed time. I don't recall the that particular pair being explained in any decoding "key" other than it identified the publication type in context of other parts of the number.

It'll be interesting to see if any further posts of books a pattern emerge for the maintenance records and to work out the number of distinct different editions English ROW 43xx.20 along with their first print month/year and print run quantity. Possibly we'll find 4301.20 - 4309.20. If so I assume the up issue happened if different model lineup or other significant content change not just extra copies of same content being run off for a model year. For example there are two print runs from model year 73 each run had the same 4309.20 but different on print dates and different quantity produced in each print run.

I'll send several 73 model year examples to Ian directly -- he can upload here if he wishes to build the overall picture per his OP


Expect in addition to his example and the one I used in explaining the system we'll easily get examples posted of 4305.20, 4307.20, 4308.20 with relevant print dates and print quantities. Not if sure we'll get earlier 4301.20-4303-20 examples

Cheers

Steve

[IanM]

Courtesy of 911MRP,

Book1:









Book 2:

[IanM]

Thanks, that 204799* (single star at end) is example of the number I was referring to on reverse/inside front page

Do you know whether that type of number with a single star is cross-referenced with a chassis number or is it just a book number?

I say that because from Ian via PM I now know he has one from 69 with 4304.20

Yes, however it doesn't have the words 'Reprint, even partially, is not allowed without our prior approval', so maybe this is the difference between 04 and Darren's 06 ?

[911MRP]

I am far from certain and others may know more about this but I have a feeling the number with the star identified a book and was used at time of delivery to link a book to a chassis and engine for purposes of aftermarket warranty claims. Quite why necessary if the book front page got the vin filled in and delivery date is not clear. However in the pre computer times possibly this was the way of paper administering the link to show that a particular car was bought via a main dealer and correctly maintained to manufacturer schedule if a warranty claim was made.

Regarding why yours and Darren's are different -- I think the pattern will emerge if others like Darren and I post their example documents per your original post idea. The chassis number is not so relevant if that is sensitive as you say but the reverse page with its references in small print and the model lineup header and possibly the delivery date is most useful in building the chronology.

My gut feel is there will be a couple of handfuls of book variations 4301-4309.2 and would quickly come to light. Personally I'm interested in the 72 to 73 transition but others might be interested in other years .

This forum is probaly uniquely placed to build a definitive picture of the chronolwogy of important documents for our RHD (and LHD Targa) cars simply by posting example from UK and maybe Australia and SA . Possibly easier for DDKers to do this collectively here than figuring it out by visiting Porsche archives given the focus of your request is just for ROW English speaking market. I hope others get behind your thread Ian as correct record is an important aspect. Given how much knowledge and minutia detail is researched here possibly surpising the definitive chronology of the English language row maintenance record books has not been nailed here before as thread probably won't take many book example photos posted here to get there!

[wildtexas]

[quote="IanM"]Courtesy of 911MRP,

Book1:



Now this has got me interested.

My car was originally supplied by Rob Walker in 68.

I have only found out a little about the garage via t'internet.

Does anyone have knowledge of the Rob Walker dealership, was it an official Porsche dealership, or one of the smaller garages that bought individual cars?

Matt

[911MRP]

Hi Matt I'll check my old dealer network listings for you at the weekend when I'm at home. As some point each Porsche dealer on the worldwide network had a unique number. Certainly well before late 73 of my example this was well established and documented in the book Darren shows among his papers. the book rates the service organisation with three star system. Each had different level and different level of tools documented in another PCGB paper I have that defines minimum tool standards for dealers in UK.

While my book example (kindly posted by Ian) that caught your interest has a dealer stamp I notice they have not completed the dealer identification number boxes on the front page. Nor the delivery odometer. Don't know until I check of this is significant in that they didnt have a number or just sloppy -- maybe they just felt the bold stamp was sufficient?

Do you have the maintenance record book to post as that year could be an interesting piece of this Jigsaw that Ian is trying to use the thread to piece together?

Steve

Cheers

[wildtexas]

I'm afraid not. I came across the rob walker connection via the kardex and AFN records.

The car came to me via the original owner's son after death. I imagine the service record disappeared during wrapping up his estate. Not uncommon I guess, just a box of old documents....

The original owner was connected into the 50-60s racing scene so I was curious as to whether that was the rob walker connection as Corsely is a long way from where he lived in Lancashire.

[jwhillracer]

We lived near Corsley in the late 70's/early 80's. There were usually several interesting cars around.
It's worth asking Ian (914-6) on here, he would know them from a lot further back, cos he's really old!

JW

[Arfor Jones]

I have a document dated August, 1968 which lists the Official Porsche Dealers and Service Agents.

Included in the list of eight Official Porsche Dealers is Rob Walker Corsley Garage Limited, Frome Road, Nr. Warminster, Wiltshire.

Arfor.

[IanM]

Interesting about the dealer stamp on Darren's book shown above - Porsche Cars Great Britain Ltd.

When did the switch happen from AFN to PCGB ink stamp?