Lets talk heating systems

[coomo]

Today I dropped an engine from my mates 1972.Which for some reason has a 2.7 lump in it.So We chucked it into his van, and I was left to finish his
bodywork, and "prepare" engine bay for its return.
After giving my mate a list of parts required, ie heater valves ,and various rotted pipework,I wandered to the front of car, and looked at the myriad
of "stuff" under the bonnet required to get heat into these cars.
So i pondered.Surely in this day and age some kinda in car heater must be available so that all this "stuff" can be discarded.
Rarely are these cars used on frozen winter mornings.All that required is some heat on the screen which would be enough to take the chill out of most days.
How much heat do you need directed at your feet!!
One tiny heater, and even an extra lightweight battery to run it, surely beats all that pipework exchangers etc.
this thread was inspired by the Bugatti designer who drives a 911~!

[Lightweight_911]

Don't waste your time trying to find a suitable electric heater - just fit a heated screen.

[Jonny Hart]

Today I dropped an engine from my mates 1972.Which for some reason has a 2.7 lump in it.So We chucked it into his van, and I was left to finish his
bodywork, and "prepare" engine bay for its return.
After giving my mate a list of parts required, ie heater valves ,and various rotted pipework,I wandered to the front of car, and looked at the myriad
of "stuff" under the bonnet required to get heat into these cars.
So i pondered.Surely in this day and age some kinda in car heater must be available so that all this "stuff" can be discarded.
Rarely are these cars used on frozen winter mornings.All that required is some heat on the screen which would be enough to take the chill out of most days.
How much heat do you need directed at your feet!!
One tiny heater, and even an extra lightweight battery to run it, surely beats all that pipework exchangers etc.
this thread was inspired by the Bugatti designer who drives a 911~!

We're two years into an electric heating project for air cooled cars. We actually had a prototype in 2010. The project got canned once but is now live again due to your favourite 'resto with add-ons' company

The bottom line is that you need a bare minimum of 1600W to heat a small vehicle like a 911. On a 12V system this requires more than 130A of power. There are no shortcuts, no magic hair dryer solutions and every 12V cab heater on the internet is landfill.

We've spent the last six months designing a proper 6 phase alternator for the 911 which is almost ready for test. This hopefully will enable electric heat to be a possibility - watch this space.

[impmad2000]

Interesting! But of course you put at least 1600W of load back onto the engine. No free meal ticket here, but at least you can turn the load off

[smallspeed]

I tried a few blowers and things in my track car and they worked to greater or lesser extents.. then I fitted a heated windscreen.. 100% perfect and only set me back £175 from Ricky Evans motorsport

[coomo]

Today I dropped an engine from my mates 1972.Which for some reason has a 2.7 lump in it.So We chucked it into his van, and I was left to finish his
bodywork, and "prepare" engine bay for its return.
After giving my mate a list of parts required, ie heater valves ,and various rotted pipework,I wandered to the front of car, and looked at the myriad
of "stuff" under the bonnet required to get heat into these cars.
So i pondered.Surely in this day and age some kinda in car heater must be available so that all this "stuff" can be discarded.
Rarely are these cars used on frozen winter mornings.All that required is some heat on the screen which would be enough to take the chill out of most days.
How much heat do you need directed at your feet!!
One tiny heater, and even an extra lightweight battery to run it, surely beats all that pipework exchangers etc.
this thread was inspired by the Bugatti designer who drives a 911~!

We're two years into an electric heating project for air cooled cars. We actually had a prototype in 2010. The project got canned once but is now live again due to your favourite 'resto with add-ons' company

The bottom line is that you need a bare minimum of 1600W to heat a small vehicle like a 911. On a 12V system this requires more than 130A of power. There are no shortcuts, no magic hair dryer solutions and every 12V cab heater on the internet is landfill.

We've spent the last six months designing a proper 6 phase alternator for the 911 which is almost ready for test. This hopefully will enable electric heat to be a possibility - watch this space.

Wow! great news Jonny.i shall follow with interest!

[mean_in_green]

Did early 911s have the option of auxiliary heat through a fuel burning exchanger?

The common 12v Webasto Airtops / Eberspachers kick out phenomenal amounts of heat. A 2000w one easily heats a truck cab. Petrol or diesel, instant hot air independant of the engine needing to run.

[anglophone1]

I tried a few blowers and things in my track car and they worked to greater or lesser extents.. then I fitted a heated windscreen.. 100% perfect and only set me back £175 from Ricky Evans motorsport

Just what I am looking for!
Now GBP 220 +VAT

[Mr Pharmacist]

Wasn’t the smugglers box used to house a webasto heater. Can't remember if that was a factory option or an after market product.

[anglophone1]

Did early 911s have the option of auxiliary heat through a fuel burning exchanger?

The common 12v Webasto Airtops / Eberspachers kick out phenomenal amounts of heat. A 2000w one easily heats a truck cab. Petrol or diesel, instant hot air independant of the engine needing to run.

I have an Eberspacher in my VW T4 Dehler camper- toasty warm even when it's - 3 degrees outside.

[Jonny Hart]

Interesting! But of course you put at least 1600W of load back onto the engine. No free meal ticket here, but at least you can turn the load off

True, although 1600W is only 2 HP. If you drive a modern car with a stop/start system, I can guarantee that you have at least a 150A alternator. It is quite common for cars with lots of toys to have >180A alternators. The McLaren P1 has a 220A alternator!

Point being that the alternator technology has moved on to allow greater outputs. The big challenge is managing the heat produced by the alternator as it is tucked inside the fan. There's a double irony here. Firstly the large engine fan does not really provide any cooling to the alternator. Secondly, we are producing and wasting heat generating power to, er, run a heater!

Anyhow, to reduce the power load, the trick is to recirculate the cabin air (at least to begin with) and regulate the heater output based on demand and desired cabin temperature. Obviously it takes the most energy to heat from cold, but keeping it at temperature requires less.

[mean_in_green]

Did early 911s have the option of auxiliary heat through a fuel burning exchanger?

The common 12v Webasto Airtops / Eberspachers kick out phenomenal amounts of heat. A 2000w one easily heats a truck cab. Petrol or diesel, instant hot air independant of the engine needing to run.

I have an Eberspacher in my VW T4 Dehler camper- toasty warm even when it's - 3 degrees outside.

Great aren't they?

I've got an Airtop in mine with a timer. I just set it to come on an hour before I leave on a cold morning and it defrosts the glass nicely. You can also get an adapter that allows you to send it a text to fire up. Being able to heat without using the motor at all is so convenient.

[Codfather]

The bottom line is that you need a bare minimum of 1600W to heat a small vehicle like a 911. On a 12V system this requires more than 130A of power. There are no shortcuts, no magic hair dryer solutions and every 12V cab heater on the internet is landfill.

.

This has interested me for some time, having a race prepped car, which is totally stripped out, and feckin freezing in anything other than summer! I have drawn up all sorts of things to add a bit of heat, including running the oil pipes through an oil cooler encased in a fabricated box with a blower pushing the heated air out, but not sure how hot you could get, or whether it would run warm for a second, then just blow out mildly warm air!

I came across this recently, and you say the minimum needed would be 1600w, so what effect would 600w have in the cab?

http://www.t7design.co.uk/12v-600w-duct ... eater.html

Cheers
Dave

[smallspeed]

I tried a few blowers and things in my track car and they worked to greater or lesser extents.. then I fitted a heated windscreen.. 100% perfect and only set me back £175 from Ricky Evans motorsport

Just what I am looking for!
Now GBP 220 +VAT

That's because of Porsche tax - the BMW ones like mine are still cheaper

[BILLY BEAN]

Codfather: 600 w = little old granny blowing gently your knees.