O/T Any opinions on MK5 Golf GT TDi 140 bhp?

[Barry]

Having trawled through half of the country's E46's, and test-owned the other half, I'm still a bit hum-ho about the current 328i Touring, although it's by far the best of the bunch so far. It's fine, and certainly looks lovely (E46 Touring is still my favourite 'normal' car shape of all time: I think it's brilliant design, and the interior matches it well). It's quick enough (more power wouldn't make it any more fun), and corners very well, and sounds very nice. All in all, you can see and feel that all the important elements are there, but somehow it's missing any sparkle or fizz.

I do have some ideas to introduce some of these elements, mainly a change to the caster (not easy, but I think I've found a factory'ish way of doing this), plus another round of suspension work (shocks all round, another change to the front A-arm bushes, poss rear trailing arm bushes, plus some more tweaks to the geometry). In addition the throttle cable is very long, and takes a rather twisty route. This leaves the throttle slightly laggy, despite a new cable: I'm convinced that it's the cable rather than management or TB, so wondered about getting rid of the two tight curves on the bowden by means of bell cranks. Anyway, plenty to do, probably another £1000 or so (needs two dents and some air-con work as well as above). This will get it heading towards the £3000 mark, which would probably make it the country's costliest 328i Touring, albeit one of the better ones. Out of interest trip computer is showing 37.6mpg, so no complaints there, and seems to tally with the pumps.

What I'm not hum-ho about though is my little MK3 GTi 8V: bought for £500 with barely 170,000 miles on it. Came complete with 4 previous and a full non-dealer history right up to 90K miles. Thought to be a right turkey when launched, and I'm pretty sure that 'CAR' at the time celebrated it's VR6 long termer with a picture of a lemon (complete with stick-on VW) on the cover.

It's been a hoot to drive, and being a Colour Concept, is actually much better equipped than you'd first think: electric everything, Recaro's, leather, very comprehensive OBC including oil temp, courtesy locking (windows / roof all open or close from key: not bad for '95), programmable wiper intermittant etc etc. I've even forgiven it blowing it's gearbox (soft rivets around the crownwheel shear and go through the box). It's the opposite of the BM: on paper it should be appalling: 0-60 time around 10s, crude, noisy and all very low tech. Actually it's a very credible chassis, not nearly as roll-prone as I'd have expected, enjoyable steering (it's no 911, but it's comfortable, communicative and a sensible ratio). Good sportyish ride, but at no times harsh. Feels faster than it's official times suggests, and it hits 45MPG on a run.

All in all, it looks like the £500 car it is, but is so much more than that: for all that, it's just not quite modern enough for a main car, but has really been the car bonus of 2012, and has been a good backup during all the E46 induced car changes. I think it probably illustrates that I'm not after the earth: if I'm happy with a knackered old GTi that wasn't very good new, I can't be that demanding, can I? .

So there we are: so do I keep the BM, weather the storm, and hope that it gets there in the end, or cut my losses and call it a day? The GTi on it's own is just too old and slightly too much like hard work for long runs, so that's out (even if it stays as a backup car). I reckon the A4 / Passat platform is just going to be too dynamically challenged, even if the space is good, and Mercs just don't do it for me.

All in all, my Golf has put me in mind of a hot hatch diesel (for the 400 mile round trips to the boat in Norfolk). There'll be times where the space of an estate is missed, but there are ways round that, not least of which is a towbar. It's very unusual to have the car brimming, although getting 8x4 sheets on the roof is useful sometimes. Overall though, just looking to inject a bit of sensible fun back into my motoring, but with diesel economy and residuals.

So: MK5 GT TDi any good to drive (I reckon DDK'ers are the one's to ask, rather than folk that only drive modern / normal car!)?
Reliability: I'd be looking at £4-5000 worth, so around 04/55 plate with 100K? I've heard cracked heads, turbo seals, DPF (but only on the 170), gearboxes etc, but what the odds are like on these I don't know?
Anything to look out for, either trouble or desired options / spec?

In theory this was just after the time that VW were gunning to overtake Merc for build quality (although I suspect Merc obliged in this mission by dropping theirs ), but what the build is actually like I don't know?

Anyway, sorry for the waffle: fancied a on-line cogitate . Many thanks ....

[shoestring7]

Thought to be a right turkey when launched, and I'm pretty sure that 'CAR' at the time celebrated it's VR6 long termer with a picture of a lemon (complete with stick-on VW) on the cover.

I have a soft spot for mk3s and have had several, the last a 30k mile, one owner VR6 HighLine. They came with underspecified dampers, a set of Koni's transforms the car. As it happens, CAR drove the road test car a few years later, and agreed they'd been a bit harsh. But by then it was running on a set of decent dampers.

If you're looking at mk5s I'd steer clear of the Tdis and try and find a good Gti. A much better drive all round, cheaper to buy now and I can get 40mpg out of mine driven gently cross country.

>C
PS 18" wheels on a mk5 are a ride quality liability, 17" much better, but mine is great on its 16" winter steelies and Bilstein B12 kit.

[Bootsy]

We've got a 2.0tdi gt sport (06 I think) on the fleet at work. Done 120k, still feels like new, great drive, hasn't cost us anything apart from servicing. I've probably done 30k of those miles and enjoy driving it

I love them. So much so just bought my good lady one as a run around. Went for a top spec for her with leather, heated seats and stuff and went for the 140 version.

Superb mpg

For around your price mark I think they're hard to beat. Check the cambelt were done at the right time and they've been regularly serviced.

For £5000 and a little bit more you should get a good one, 55 plate under 100k

[hot66]

We had a mk2 & 2 mk3,s both 1.8 and loved them.

Mk5 ... I had a hoot in the gti I test drove... Economy wasn't up to much though. Unfortunately I can't be any more helpful as I've never owned a mk5.

I do know I quite fancy an e46 m3 don't suppose that's on your list though Barry

[crisc204]

We have a MK5 still in the family which I used to own

Problem is I love cars but I'm also happy driving an old hatch, I had a MK2 Astra SRi until 5 years ago.
Bosch adjustable EFi and over engineered parts from a GTE it never broke down in all the years we had it. Was my mums car I got taken to school it it! She got it when it was a year old but carting around my Niece and Godchildren and being a grown-up demands a decent car

Back to the point!

IMHO your right to want the 140 BHP model its not fault free but does not have the silly bits that bolted on to the 170BHP ones (which you have heard about)
I 'll state my colours, I dislike diesels, they are for vans, lorries, boats & Cayennes but Mk5 Golf 2.0 GT diesels do have a good turn of pace, some toys and do drive well.

Even though I'm a VW fan I'm not a fanboi, VW have been hiding their misgivings with a teflon rep and by the numbers warranty work for a while during the time they have been trying to balance quality and internal cost/ profits etc this was as you say during the time they produced the MK5 hopefully this has been pegged

We (meaning Mrs Cris, Ali) had a Black Mk5 Golf from new in Dec 2008. Ali loves the car and as a bonus it gave and still gives 48MPG+ (Ali now has a white new Golf My sister now has our Mk5)
We found the diesel Golfs are much louder inside than the TSI petrols. If you don't drive a petrol MK5 you may not find the diesels too loud, its a good modern car but you notice it stepping in to a petrol
It was enough to affect her tinnitus others may not notice.

Our mk5 had 3 issues needing workshop time in those 85K but has never left us stranded or unable to use the car

While new in 2008 I remember saying I really like this gearbox but its going to break its too racy...
In Sport mode It used to bang up and down the & 7spd box like a touring car blipping the throttle and misfiring (on purpose) on the upshift before they neutered it with a software upgrade
( If you get a DSG and hear the word Mechatronic in the explanation of a failure "you" are in trouble!)

2. Again only my opinion but either Longlife servicing 20K oil changes are to blame or modern VW turbo units on both the Diesels and the Petrols do not seem up to the job.
The turbo failed at 68,000 miles. The impeller shattered, I hear countless stories of Turbo failures in the trade, other owners go trouble free for a 100K++ miles

The biggest plus about the Mk5 is the Chassis over earlier Golfs its chalk and cheese.
IMHO E46 over to MK5 Golf is not much of a jump in quality of ride dare I say the newer Golf is better...
If I was buying a European Hatch for me to use I would buy another Mk5/MK6 Golf or a Mk2/3 Focus. without a doubt, just a include a thourough inspection
hth

[TheEasyLife]

Hi Barry,

Sorry to read of your woes about the bm when it took you so long to find the right one.

This may be a step too far but have you considered a fabia vrs? Its in your budget, has the vw 1.9tdi pd engine with 130bhp and a cracking six speed gearbox. It can be chipped,to a lot more if you want. A really good car if you can get past the badge. The missus has put 110K on an 06 plate one from new without issue and always got over 50mpg and both of us don't drive it slowly. Or has this just made you think its a girls car?

I'll get me coat now.

Cheers

James

[Bertroex]

Barry,

I got my 924s back from a service and OMG: I thank my lucky stars for having it. The driving ability, the comfort (it's on 15 inches), the over engineering of it ( 3 massive screws for securing the glove box lid), no matter how hard I spank it I usually get 32 mpg, the dog loves it, people come over and talk to me in the hospital car park etc etc. there are bad ones out there but over servicing made mine a little gem- servo assisted early 944 ( so pre sep 1985) or 924s is bringing that driving feedback you are looking for.

Alternatively, a z3 coupe: a six cylinder sports hatch alternative to a 924s /944 with the crude but I so lovely e30 rear suspension( lift off in bend: YOU'RE OUT bozo!) . It's a drivers car like your e21.
Just like you, I dread the day a sensible family hatch arrives....

Cheers,

Bert

[Barry]

Hi All, and thank you for all of the replies: most useful!

James: I actually bought a VRS on a 04 plate around four years ago (so very new for me): it was gone almost immediately, although I expect that if I'd stuck with it, it'd have grown on me. I just found it too understeery: of course the test drive route was carefully dictated by straight roads .

Bert: I really need an estate, or at least reasonable sized car, but the MK3 Golf has just about done everything I need space-wise, but any less and I'd be in trouble. The idea is that as Newfoundland owners (dog, not location), my parents are committed a large estate, so there's an option there should I need to tow anything large, or indeed carry anything particularly big. Nevertheless, as there's always Isla's cage (dog, not girlfriend, I should probably point out) on the rear seat, that limits the remaining space somewhat, but I'm sure I'd get away with a MK5.

Anyway, I have reached a provisional decision for now: I'm going to shove another £500 at the BM (Sachs sports shocks all round, to match it's factory sport suspension), try some Meyle control arm bushes (rather than the Powerflex's that have left it harsher than other cars I've fitted them to), new rear trailing arm bushes, and see if I can't tweak the suspension set-up a little. That still leaves enough for a breaker's gearbox (this one baulks in forth terribly, the first BM box I've ever had that does it: yes, rebuilt linkage, and correct BMW MTII LL gearoil).

This is on the basis that perhaps one last push will tip the balance on this car: if it doesn't, then the above would suggest the GT TDi would be well worth a look. One thing's for sure, if I sell this one, it'd be just about impossible to replicate in this condition, spec and with one previous, so I need to be sure. I always reckon the most expensive thing you can ever do to a (everyday) car is to change it: towbar, mudflaps, interior mats, roof bars, snowchains, perhaps a couple of tyres and a couple of shocks, new touch-up paint, not to mention swapping insurance and the inevitable tax disc disadvantage. It all adds up, and it's easy to hit a grand on a swap, quite aside from the actual buying / selling £'s.

Thanks again chaps, and I'll update if there's any news .

[Dyno Soar]

I think you would be bonkers to go from a E46 to a Golf Mk4. I have had one and I have owned a series of BMW 3 series cars.

I would listen to Bert or If I were you, I would as you say resolve the current cars woes as you plan. Otherwise sell the current touring and get another newer better car in the finest condition you can find.

You cannot beat a E36 or E46 as all rounder. They have very good build, great dynamics, can tow, can press on, cruise or hoon at any given mood. Stay with the Bavarian Man's Wheels IMHO.

VW's are for family men and girls! I should know I own 3!

[Barry]

Thanks Matey: good to hear from you, and all points very well made. As an all rounder, a good BM 3-series is a compelling package.

It was a MK5 rather than a 4, so dynamically a bit better, but I think deep down I'm really a BM person at heart. I've driven them pretty much back to back since I was 19, just struggled a bit moving into the 46's. Funnily enough, I had the same going from E21 to E30's. Just couldn't love the 30's, even after two mint 325i's (one 2 door in met. black, one Touring in bright red). As soon as I got in a 36 I was a happy boy again.

For all that, my little Golf has been so much more fun than I expected, it really got me wondering about the above change.

Anyway, I think I'll give this one last, hard, push before bailing, so gearbox ordered, as are the (Sachs sports, as per orginal) shocks, Meyle FCA bushes, Meyle trailing arm bushes and shock top mounts, plus some gearbox parts to deal with the 5th gear sticking issues that surround these things.

If I had to pay for labour, I would call it a day, but given the above list, amazingly, doesn't hit £500, I think it's worth a try: what's that these day, six tanks of fuel? Got to improve it a bit, hasn't it?

[Dyno Soar]

Yup stick with the BMW.

Mk4 vs Mk5... yeah I see your point, but I have found the older BMW's to be so much more versitile. You'll get the VW tied in knots when you H&T or LFB when your dancing on the pedals. The ECU hates it and starts cutting power and stumbling everywere on the diesels. Also I hate to add, 'driven by the correct wheels'

£500 isn't alot to fine tune your trusty steed. New Bushings while you're in there and I am sure the car will respond with a rewarding drive. Don't forget the 4 wheel alignment.

You cannot beat a Beemer for a daily driver. We just sold our E39 cruise missile after 4 years and 3 kids worth of ownership. We still miss it.

[Barry]

Thanks Alam, all good, valid, advice.

Well, the gearbox has arrived already (ordered 11:30 yesterday, arrived 2:00 pm today: how breakers have changed). The fact that it selects gears better dry and static than my existing one does wet and running suggests an improvement is likely. As a precaution it's also getting the 5th and reverse gear detent mods, plus the rebuilt linkage from the other box. In order to get a clean clutch release, it's also getting a new LUK (OEM) clutch.

The new shocks have arrived as well, and rather yummy they are to. Finally two of the three pairs of Meyle uprated rubber bushes are here now. Just the rear trailing arm bushes now.

Roll on my Christmas 'break': busman's holiday I'm thinking ....

[stuby]

[quote="Barry"]Hi All, and thank you for all of the replies: most useful!

James: I actually bought a VRS on a 04 plate around four years ago (so very new for me): it was gone almost immediately, although I expect that if I'd stuck with it, it'd have grown on me. I just found it too understeery: of course the test drive route was carefully dictated by straight roads .

Bert: I really need an estate, or at least reasonable sized car, but the MK3 Golf has just about done everything I need space-wise, but any less and I'd be in trouble. The idea is that as Newfoundland owners (dog, not location), my parents are committed a large estate, so there's an option there should I need to tow anything large, or indeed carry anything particularly big. Nevertheless, as there's always Isla's cage (dog, not girlfriend, I should probably point out) on the rear seat, that limits the remaining space somewhat, but I'm sure I'd get away with a MK5.

Anyway, I have reached a provisional decision for now: I'm going to shove another £500 at the BM (Sachs sports shocks all round, to match it's factory sport suspension), try some Meyle control arm bushes (rather than the Powerflex's that have left it harsher than other cars I've fitted them to), new rear trailing arm bushes, and see if I can't tweak the suspension set-up a little. That still leaves enough for a breaker's gearbox (this one baulks in forth terribly, the first BM box I've ever had that does it: yes, rebuilt linkage, and correct BMW MTII LL gearoil).

This is on the basis that perhaps one last push will tip the balance on this car: if it doesn't, then the above would suggest the GT TDi would be well worth a look. One thing's for sure, if I sell this one, it'd be just about impossible to replicate in this condition, spec and with one previous, so I need to be sure. I always reckon the most expensive thing you can ever do to a (everyday) car is to change it: towbar, mudflaps, interior mats, roof bars, snowchains, perhaps a couple of tyres and a couple of shocks, new touch-up paint, not to mention swapping insurance and the inevitable tax disc disadvantage. It all adds up, and it's easy to hit a grand on a swap, quite aside from the actual buying / selling £'s.


Barry
Must confess to being very pro - VW, speaking from experience over the last 11 years, ny 'family' car has been the Passat Estate - started with a 2001 2.0S petrol, comfortable but had to 'wind it up' - then moved on to a 130 Tdi on a 03 reg (ex demo and I still swear it had been re-mapped as it was quicker than my company A4 130 sport ). Then moved onto a 57 plate 140 Tdi, pulled a touring van with both that one and the 130 and they were both excellent. Presently in a bit of a wolf in sheeps clothing with my present one - the 170 Tdi...... need I say more ??? This one has to be one of the torqiest engines I have had - and an easy 50mpg at ahem, 'motorway speeds' honest officer....

Stu

[hot66]

Had from new , an a4 170tdi (56 plate) .... One of the most unlikeable diesels I've had . Horrible power delivery, all in one slug and highish up the rev range ....and not that good on fuel either, think I averaged 36mpg over 60k miles of country lane thrashing. 140 drove better, if lacking in punch

[Barry]

Well, I think that demontrates a 'range of views' .

I'd still like to try one at some stage, even though I'm committed to the BM's do-or-die make-over. It'd be great to know that there could be a non-BM alternative to my motoring, although deep down I know the BM's generally are a good fit for me.

Shame they're so old. otherwise I could have hired one for a week.

Anyway, hopefully it'll be a moot point for a while, assuming my Christmas project works out ....