Finally Going Back together

58A - 71E · Post by **58A - 71E** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:10 pm

Well done John, Great thread - please post up results from Bob Watson's session - just to turn us other 2.2E owner's green with envy

johnM · Post by **johnM** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:03 pm

Hi thanks for all the comments I will post some pics of why we had to pull the engine apart in a day or two.

The family and I went up to Center Parcs near Penrith this weekend and I took the porsche, I popped into mikes on the way up as I was a bit bothered about it not running too well on the botom rack. We had welded 3 lambda sensor bosses onto the exhaust system 1 on each heat exchanger so we can see if each side of the engine is running correctly and one on the tail pipe.

The sensor was put in and we went up and down the road noteing the AFR at various points and made some adjustments to the MFI Pump. It was much better after this and pulls at lower rev's smoothly and comes on cam at about 4500 RPM and then pulls really well.

Well we all had a great weekend at Center Parcs and the kids were fighting over who was coming back in the porsche, so the yongest was with me up to half way then the oldest jumped in. Good job as the yougest was sick all over the volvo, just escapped that one. The run down the side of Ullswater was great with very little traffic and the car behaved perfectly

regards

johnM · Post by **johnM** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:42 pm

Well went to Bobs on Friday, great experiance if not a little worrying as James has said being stood behind your car when its reving at over 6000RPM and fully loaded is a real shock, you can feel the energy. Well the car was very rich at the bottom end and when the throttle was suddenly opened fully it was leaning its self out. Bob was not happy and aborted the first run. He made an adjustment to the top rack and went for another run, the power delivery was quite stepped but peeked at 168 HP at 5500RPM. A few more tweeks withthe MFI pump and a second full run delivered 177 HP at 6000 RPM and a very respectable 216 NM of torque, Bob said that a 2.7 RS has 240 NM of torque and seemed quite impressed with the figures. Bob said that he could of leaned the car out a little more and that would have given a little more horse power but if you are going to do track days then its safer to have the car a little rich.

Well out on the open road the car is transformed, it pulls really strongly from low revs and then really comes on cam at about 4500 RPM. We stopped at one of Mikes friends over night and Nick has owned a beautiful 2.7 RS for 24 years. Nick had a drive of the car and was really impressed with how drivable the car was. He also let me have a drive of his RS, thanks Nick

Well I am very pleased with the car and enjoyed the drive home.

A thank you to Bob Watson for his magic and for Nick for his hospitality but the biggest thanks to Mike Bainbridge for all the help with this little project.

Well thats proberbly the end, thanks for all the comments I will have to find the next job on the car.

Kind Regards

hot66 · Post by **hot66** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:35 am

great numbers John

Once I get my suspension sorted out we'll have to plan a nice little road trip to 'exercise' the new motor

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:06 pm

Well done, John, a nice conclusion to a brilliant thread that I'm sure will become a regular reference point for others in the future

.

Roll on the Spring

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58A - 71E · Post by **58A - 71E** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:14 pm

^^^ What Barry said

You must be pleased with those numbers John? Great Xmas present to yourself

Ian Donkin · Post by **Ian Donkin** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:22 am

Nice one John!

Pity about Goodwood - it was a beautiful day if a little cold (make that freezing), but as everyone turned out on the day you wouldn't have got a run if you'd turned up on spec.

The earliest car was a 2.0T; most interesting probably an Australian's twin-plugged Turbo built around an SC shell with full 935 suspension - very quick, but he kept getting flagged for excessive noise

Oh and I was followed down there by a very nice 2.7RS - judging by the way he was keeping in close proximity, it was quite a healthy car too!

johnM · Post by **johnM** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:42 pm

Thanks, yep very pleased with the figures but more pleased with how it goes and drives. When cold it starts easly, ticks over at 900 RPM smoothly, drives when cold or warm smoothly and goes like a bomb

Its great it dosnt even smell bad anymore, no unburnt fuel smell and not a single drop of oil on the bottom of my crankcases or garage floor, how long will that last!!

Regards

johnM · Post by **johnM** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:44 pm

Hi

Just an update to answer a question or two.

Hi John,

thanks for the informative thread. Just wondering if there is a 'pulling the engine apart' thread that proceeds this one, or one that explains your chosen path for parts used ect.

Cheers

John

The engine was taken apart because of an exhaust valve failure. When the engine was first rebuilt 3 of the 6 exhaust valves were not fit for reuse so mike let me look through some old valves he had lying around his workshop. As luck would have it I managed to pick 3 valves out of a set of old heads he had, these valves had good margin and looked very serviceable. After the failure and once the engine was taken apart it became apparent that the reason for the failure was two fold, the engine had been running lean and the exhaust valves that had been replaced turned out to be aftermarket ones not Porsche. When the heads were stripped all 3 aftermarket valves had failed (the porsche ones were still perfect) one had fallen apart and the other two had cracks through the head. Note in the pic the valve head is inbedded in the combustion chamber and wont come out, also look at the damage to the spark plug.

one that explains your chosen path for parts used ect.

Cheers

John

Well the chosen path started with pistons and cylinders, my old P/C were very worn and I was hoping that they would last a couple of years before I needed to replace them but due to the unexpected engine rebuild I made the decision to renew them sooner rather than later. the spec of the engine was chosen from advice from Mike Bainbridge and cost, there was little difference in price between 2.2E and 2.2S pistons and cylinders so I purchased the S high compression ones, the decision to boat tail the crankcases was because the small capacity engine benefit quite a bit from this mod as the crankcases restrict the airflow. The heads were opened up to S spec as were the throttle bodies to make this into a S spec engine. The reason I stopped with the E cams was again two fold, one was cost, I would need to buy some cams and it may have meant a MFI pump recalibration and a distributor advance curve mod, this was at a time when money was becoming an issue. Also E cam are reputed to give very nearly as much power as S cams and Bob Watson has proved this to be correct, the E cams also make the car very drivable it pulls hard from low revs and gives a wide spread of power. Also I can install more aggressive cams at a later date quite easily without having to do any intrusive work on the engine.

After about 800 miles and no oil leaks, I can say that I am very pleased with the results and hopfully when the weather picks up a few DDKers will have a go to see what they think.

Kind Regards

John S · Post by **John S** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:54 am

John,

Thank you for the response to my questions. I only just stumbled upon it.
My computer took a Christmas break it seems

cheers

kenikh · Post by **kenikh** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:15 pm

johnM wrote:The pistons are S but the E cams will be going back in for the time being, going to S cams will mean that the MFI pump will need to be recalibrated and the distributor will need its advance curve modified, this could be done easily in the future if the kids haven’t starved, fortunately they like bread and jam. Although it will never deliver power like a S cam it is rumoured that E cams can produce as much power, I suppose we will see.

Regards

John, you need to read this thread. It removes some myths about space cams and camshaft compatibility:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=386414

This is literally the greatest and most useful forum thread I have ever seen regarding MFI.

johnM · Post by **johnM** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:16 pm

Thanks Kenik

I have come across this post and have read bits with interest. I have today read ALL of it and it’s a great great thread, it will give me confidence that you can play with the pump and achieve a good end result. I have got lambda bosses welded into my exhaust and have access to a LM-1 all I need is the bit that lets you reference your engine speed to fuelling.

Thanks for the link.

Kind Regards

kenikh · Post by **kenikh** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:39 am

Jeff and I are working on making the thread into a "How to" technical article to first be published in the RGruppe and Early 'S' Registry newsletters and then potentially on the Pelican site as a PDF/web page with photos. It is a bit hard to navigate the bits out as a forum thread. I'll keep you posted.

johnM · Post by **johnM** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:27 am

Yes I know what you mean, I printed the thread off and got my high lighter pen out

It would be a great reference if the info was turned into a "how to" document. Please keep us posted though I am sure most of us do frequent the earlyS and pelican forums.

Kind Regards

johnM · Post by **johnM** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:05 pm

Just thought I would put an update on this thread to tie it all together, apologies to those who have seen this.

Update required.

Well its been 2 years and 6000 miles since my engine rebuild and I was thinking the engine was not as sparkling as it was, so I booked the old girl in at Bob Watson’s. The engine is a 2.2E, it was built with S spec pistons and S spec heads but still runs standard E cams E MFI pump and E dizzy. It produced 177 BHP last time @ 6080rpm and 212 Nm of torque at 5380.
You can see the build thread here.

http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17139

Here is bobs sheet.

So Bob strapped the car down and ran the car up. The rear silencer must have been full of carbon as it belched out quite a bit of soot. This alarmed my mate I took along, you can just see his arms waving franticly thinking it was about to pop.

The results for this run were...

Bob leaned out the pump 4 clicks and went for a second run. Not as much soot this time and the results were the same 190 BHP so Bob has left it like that.

So 190 BHP @ 7390 RPM! but torque was down to 183 Nm @ 5970. Its interesting to compare the 2 runs as the only difference between the 2 is 6000 miles of driving. During this time, the timing chains have stretched and altered the cam timing slightly, so it means if you messed with the cam timing you could choose between 212 Nm of torque or 190 BHP, but sadly not both at the same time. For that you might have to get a 2.4 S. It is interesting that this little 2.2 can produce as much torque as James (hot66) 2.4 S and as much power as a 2.4 S. Anyway very happy with that, I just have to rev it a bit harder, I had only been revving it to 6000, I will have to go to 7300rpm from now on. Also worth noting is that I have a E rotor arm in my dizzy which should have a rev limiter of 7100rpm, clearly this is not working. Anyway managed a healthy 27mpg on the way back.

Kind Regards