DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Helen wrote:

Spydermon wrote:

hot66 wrote:not another mountain biker !! There are quite a few of us on DDK

Oh yes, though semi-retired! Won a few minor-league downhill races back in the day! Honestly if I start about bikes.............No, I can't, but if you know the tactile joy of an XTR skewer, then you know....


Steve.

oh god, don't start them off again
http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16832

Bertroex wrote:

hot66 wrote:not another mountain biker !!

AAAAAaaaarrrgh.

Only joking naturally. It gets a bit scary if you start to break bones but I suppose that is commitment.

On the subject of Peter Morgan: I personally feel that his report is a good beginning but it doesn't tell a complete story.

If I were to buy a 911 and an RS in particular, I'd want someone who:

1.Can assess what is period to that particular RS and what not (e.g. factory delivered with some lightweight options but a touring bumper at the back)

2. Can assess what is original to that particular car and what has been replaced with reproduction parts (wings, bootlid, front windscreen, what serial number and build date are on the Fuchs? 15 inch SC wheels from 1979 or a set dated correctly from say 03/1973)

3. Can assess the quality of the restauration. An RS was a choice par excellence for rally drivers. A good number of them have been wrapped around trees, jumped left right and centre in stage rallys and what not. Have a look at the floor of some the RS's and you can sometimes see scars which were left as a reminder. A talented bodyshop man spots these things in a split second. Peter is not a bodyshop man. Also, what is the paint thickness. Porsche had 120 microns. Any quality restauration would want to emulate that as close as possible, unless the shell has been e-coated: that adds a few microns. Peter does not test this IIRC.

4. Can assess the state of the internal bit: engine, gearbox, suspension, brakes etc. Once again, I'd expect a compression test AND an assessment by a specialist such as Bob Watson, Fran Tuthill, Neil Bainbridge, Mike Bainbridge, Crispin Manners at Oak Tree, Jaz at Carrera Performance, Nick Fulljames at Autofarm etc.

Mike Bainbridge spotted in 2 minutes items that were not quite as porsche intended on my engine when I broke down with the car. Needless to say: its a waste of time and money bothering with anyone who can't do that. It is even more important to do that if 6 figures are at stake.

Peter Morgan's comprehensive reports are good and I do appreciate what the man does BUT my personal feeling is that this is merely "a good start" to get a feeling of the car.
*Edit* This is based on a number of £350 reports I have seen from Peter Morgan for more "common 911" cars. It might be different for an "RS" report.

Good luck in your hunt,


Bert

Michael Birch wrote:Spydermon,

Unfortunately (as a buyer) the market is still strong for proper cars (even despite the money/economy issues). There are lots of replicas around and also plenty of tourings converted to lightweights. In the 80's they were worth bugger all, the market has since rocketed so some have a chequered history. If you are happy to buy one that has been played around with, then personally I'd buy a replica as in effect that's what you would be getting. The difference between a pretend one and a real one could be GBP£70/80k so it's down to what you want to spend and how much you value originality. I'd buy a proper car everytime because it's something you will always sell. LHD now seem to be RHD money so I'd consider whether you will drive it more in the UK or Europe to make that decision. For sure there is a strong argument for LHD having a bigger market, but with everything the item is only worth what you actually sell it for, and if you look at the RHD cars Lee M-P has sold recently he doesn't seem to have a problem. A German dealer recently offered to buy my RHD.

And because of the values the're now fetching they are high profile so finding a "cheap" car won't be easy. Personally I'd buy a a fully sorted car with good history. They will always sell and, unless there's a dip in the market, you won't lose money although your outlay (and therefore return) maybe more. All those kids that hankered after an RS in 1973 now have grey hair, pot bellys (at least I do!) and a wodge of cash so demand is there.

Most importantly, buy the right car that fits your requirements, use and and enjoy it.

210bhp wrote:Mike Bainbridge has a very dry sense of humour. He has a very laid back approach and for those of us on his Masterclass last year we had a great couple of days. His willingness to share his expertise in a his very easy manner was something I for one enjoyed very much. He made us laugh and passed on lots of valuable tips. I am sure everyone there would agree it was an unmissable weekend. The main thing is that Mike has a lifetimes experience with marque and this is something you cannot put a value on. One of his 'throw away' remarks was how he can tell if an engine case has ever been split or if it is original from the factory. And this from just a quick glance under the crankcase. This is the kind of guy you need to inspect your engine.

Neil Bainbridge is the only guy who has worked on my cars. Mike (RSR) will testify that he is someone who has probably forgotten more about RS's that we will ever know about them. You only need to look at the work he is doing for Mike to know that his attention to detail is unsurpassed. He has probably seen the underside and inside of more RS engines than anyone else. This is the kind of guy you need to inspect your engine.

Regards
Mike

elkelk wrote:"beige grey" is one i have not seen before

Lightweight_911 wrote:To broaden your search as much as possible, it would be worth contacting David Gilhooley &/or Michael Chadwick who run the Carrera RS register within the PCGB as they often get to hear about cars before they're offered on the open market.

David Gilhooley can be contacted at: carrera@porscheclubgb.com or on 01628 620897
Michael Chadwick can be reached via a pm (DDK member FLY 7)


In addition, Russell Edmonds has probably bought/sold more Carrera RS models than anyone else & often gets approached by potential sellers - you can never have 'too many irons in the fire' so it's worth contacting him too:

Tel: 01993 778423 (Office)/07768 838283(M)