Att: AFN car owners

[wildtexas]

Arfor, thanks that's great. On your list is there one closer to Manchester? I am curious as to why the original owner travelled so far for his car.

[911MRP]

The AFN business became Porsche Cars Great Britain for a number of reasons.

The VW Porsche sales organisation in Europe being created emboldened VW UK to make a play for the historic AFN Porsche concession

John Aldington responded by a clever play to get Ferry Porsche involved in Porsche Cars GB to sidestep the VW threat to his business.

Ferry Porsche, production head Brandski and Peter Adington plus others were on new Board of PCGB.

Also AFN founders were getting older and there were death duty implications the needed a new corporate structure.

AFN role as the importer and as a Porsche dealer tend to get confused but technically it became PCGB through this restructuring.

I have British price lists for most years and think they are PCGB although would need to check the 1966 one as likeley predates this change

Became clearer distinction when PCGB later moved to purpose built set up near reading.

Chris Turner used to tell me the old stories from that era as we worked in fact he gave me some surplus shelving for my workshop that had onltime been in AFN London Road that he got at sell off when the move and corporate change happened.

I have a photo of the PCGB launch with a plaque being unveiled with Ferry Porsche in attendance.

Lots of interesting questions triggered from only three books posted so far -- hopefully more book examples will appear at weekend when folks get more time.

Steve

PS Ian Anthony Sales Ltd was the Manchester area dealer in Bury. I'm not from area but happen to know this because my car was bought new from them in 72.

[Arfor Jones]

Arfor, thanks that's great. On your list is there one closer to Manchester? I am curious as to why the original owner travelled so far for his car.

Perhaps because that was the only dealer at the time who had a car of the colour/specification which the purchaser wanted?

It seems that for a while, at any rate, Porsche Cars GB and AFN operated side by side.

My list shows the Concessionaires to be Porsche Cars Great Britain, while AFN are listed as an Official Porsche Dealer, both companies located at the same address - Falcon Works, Isleworth.

The other dealers, as at August, 1968, were:

Isaac Agnew Ltd - Belfast.
Glen Henderson Motors, Ayr, Scotland.
Malaya Garage Ltd, Billingshurst.
Parker & Parker Ltd, Kendal.
Rob Walker Corsley Garage Ltd. Warminster.
G. Sheppard & Son Ltd, Sidcup, Kent.
Tordoff Motors Ltd, Bradford.

Arfor.

[IanM]

Thanks for the info.

I have a photo of the PCGB launch with a plaque being unveiled with Ferry Porsche in attendance.

I'll upload the photo for you if you want.

[911MRP]

Bit of a tangent but while digging out these maintenance record books among a bunch of my old maroon glovebox document wallets etc I found a slightly smaller lighter shade of maroon wallet with Porsche name in a parallelogram top right corner. Had forgotten it was there, remarkably good condition. Not correct version for my 73 model that has the crest lower right so surplus to requirements but not sure what this variation correct for.

Feeling it is earlyish. Asking experts here is this style 356 or quite early 911 wallet ? If so what years. Happy start a new thread with this question if this is straying too far off topic and distracting from Ian's attempt to get pictures of all variations of English record books but question is broadly to do with glovebox documentation versions.

Steve

[911MRP]

Thanks, that 204799* (single star at end) is example of the number I was referring to on reverse/inside front page

Do you know whether that type of number with a single star is cross-referenced with a chassis number or is it just a book number?

I say that because from Ian via PM I now know he has one from 69 with 4304.20

Yes, however it doesn't have the words 'Reprint, even partially, is not allowed without our prior approval', so maybe this is the difference between 04 and Darren's 06 ?

Hi Ian,

I've checked my information further, that six digit xxxxxx* on reverse of the maintenance book number is a unique Kundendienst-Heftnummer. I'm no German language expert but think translates as Kunden Dienst Heft Nummer meaning Customer Service Book Number. This is cross referencing the book, vin and engine transmission for the purposes of administering warranty. Important to track any aftermarket costs and allocate them pre computerisation this maybe was only way. As I thought links to the number on the Kardex in box at top of form abbreviated KD Heft-nr.

There is a memo dated 1968 written in USA to put in place a dealer procedure to control the warranty (duration of which varied by geographical market). If I understand the procedure on memo right the area beneath the KD Heft-nr. was supposed to be stamped and signed by the dealer. I don't know if this was a NA market only procedure or indeed if the memo was ever followed by dealers with any discipline. A USA 1969 maintenance record also I have doesn't have KD Heft-nr. on reverse but otherwise very much complies by having a second dealer stamp and signature per the memo. It does have perforated number punched in the page.

Further examples of maintenance records showing this reverse side to first page with KD Heft-nr. and the other small print ID would go a long way to confirming if/how this all worked in practice in the U.K. Particularly if related Kardex using same Heft-nr.exits too. Kardex was discontinued during longhood era and my second example record posted by Ian very late in 73 no longer has the pre printed KD Heft-nr.

Somewhere in my old files I also have a blank vintage factory warranty form so could check if there was provision for KD Heft-nr to be entered when dealer was raising a warranty claim for a specific chassis engine or transmission. Did they also need to enter the KD Heft-nr to show that car and its serialised components had been maintained per shedule.?

So far with three examples of maintenance records have been posted (two of mine and Darren's) frankly doesn't appear much momentum so far from forum members in pooling other examples to get to bottom of the various booklets and their role in GB aftermarket warranty administration back in the day.

At one time I used to be the group operations director of a well known car engineering/ manufacturing/ motorracing business so these old ways of working in lowish volume OEMs and various information/numbers on car's documents interest me -- obviously not everyone's cup of tea to look into their car's original documentation and history even where it exists.

Steve

[IanM]

Steve, Thanks for the update.

I've checked my information further, that six digit xxxxxx* on reverse of the maintenance book number is a unique Kundendienst-Heftnummer. I'm no German language expert but think translates as Kunden Dienst Heft Nummer meaning Customer Service Book Number.

I've just translated that on Google and it turns out to be Customer Service Issue Number, so I agree with you that this links with the vin.
But what about NOS blank maintenance books that have a KD Heft-nr that you sometimes see advertised?

As I thought links to the number on the Kardex in box at top of form abbreviated KD Heft-nr.

Thanks for the heads up. Learn something new everyday.
However, a few weeks ago "davep" at the early911sregistry (occasional contributor here) told me that Kardex was discontinued at the end of model year 1969.

A USA 1969 maintenance record also I have doesn't have KD Heft-nr. on reverse but otherwise very much complies by having a second dealer stamp and signature per the memo. It does have perforated number punched in the page.

Yes have noticed that USA books have a perforated number punched.

Somewhere in my old files I also have a blank vintage factory warranty form so could check if there was provision for KD Heft-nr to be entered when dealer was raising a warranty claim for a specific chassis engine or transmission.

That would be great.

So far with three examples of maintenance records have been posted (two of mine and Darren's) frankly doesn't appear much momentum so far from forum members in pooling other examples to get to bottom of the various booklets and their role in GB aftermarket warranty administration back in the day.

Yes, unfortunately.

[911MRP]

Ian

These questions intrigue me as to how it worked with books, Kardex, warranty forms etc back then that is why more evidence posted would allow patterns etc to become clearer.

I can only assume the books had the number printed at source. Any surplus books not used in system would not get an entry on a Kardex. I suppose those that got activated at delivery when everything got filled in , vin, engine no, customer details, dealer stamp. Possibly even if the document pack travelled 1:1 with cars in the ditribution network. Logical if the cross reference only became active at that point of delivery to customer or first registration Warranty was afaik it relatively short by today's standards so car first registration probably best trigger -- not shipment from factory. For this purpose some ( maybe all) maintenance documents had way acknowledge receipt of tools and the record book using a perforated tear out postcard which I assume went from dealer to importer PCGB and then on to aftermarket dept in Germany resulting in Kardex being created in the file. This tearout card was still present even in the August 1973 example I provided from long after Dave says paper Kardex ended.

Obviously some surplus books inventory would be in system for losses in transit and leftovers as model lineup changed etc. Unused books are what we see as nos as now I guess?

A number of apparently NOS English ones in circulation from circa 72 model year are a batch of high fidelity repros because at that time I used to hang out socially as part of early Porsche scene with guy who spent lot of time to make them professionally --wasn't money making just as part of his 72 2.4 RHD full resto. They too have this number and he was smart enough to print different numbers in them. He was printing them properly as he had a printing business (not xeroxing one master with same number.)

From previous conversations with Dave I know Kardex paper system was no longer used for later longhoods but the practice of printing number on books seems to have rolled on even if original paper and card based procedure became redundant or possibly they changed the use that number as a key to link to computerised system. At least until the last 100 batch unless my August 73 example you posted is unrepresentative of practice at end of longhood lifecycle here in uk ?

Despite this rapid flurry of posts from me in last couple of days on the forum I only have an academic interest in all this as my car wouldn't have had a Kardex.

[IanM]

Interesting. Thanks.

[IanM]

A book of mine looks exactly the same as Darren's except that it's dated IX 69 (Sept 69 for model year 70):

[911MRP]

Cheers ...has anyone else got English language ROW 430?.20 with different mm/yy print date that they can post here to help build the complete picture?

Probably handful more posts showing other different examples with xxxx.20 suffix, print run quantity and date code would give this community the complete chronology of early 911 maintenance ROW record book versions in English .... But only if people who have them share them! No need to show car private vin details or PO owner details just show small print inside front cover similar to Ian's latest picture above would do.

Potentially quite useful (easily created) collective reference for helping determine paperwork provenance -- predominantly for 911 RHD cars (or LHD Targas pre 73) imported by AFN PCGB or other ROW country importers in Aus, SA etc.

Expect the Early S forum could easily rise to Ian's OP question/ challenge but while responses there might be more forthcoming possibly wouldn't have quite the AFN RHD ROW PCGB market focus to responses vs being answered in this community.

Original papers regularly went missing from glovebox but there have got to be more than these four examples from Ian, Darren, me out there in DDK land ....surely?

[Lightweight_911]

.

It's interesting that although Porsche KG became Porsche AG some time during 1972 that the Maintenance Record for the '73 911T with a print run date of VII/73 still shows the company name as Porsche KG.

Here's another UK-supplied RHD car (not via AFN though) which, although it has an earlier print run date (III/73), shows the company name as Porsche AG:





- a slightly different format for the number on the reverse side:

[911MRP]

Good spot Andy. Thanks for injecting new content another jigsaw piece to build the picture. Another interesting question -- seems each new example picture triggers new questions in what ought to be straightforward chronology of these books!

Got to say KG did seem a bit odd that as late as VIII/73 when it was long after AG -- now with your post definitely very odd that it would revert to KG having been AG a full five months prior. My example book you refer to (that Ian posted for me) is as can be seen boldly dealer stamped and rest of pages comprehensively stamped service pages various dealers and marque around the country regular over most of its pages -- all sorts if stamps different places and people signing it.As mentioned it is probably now an orphan book of a writing off car. I acquired book from an owner of the T who said that car had engine fire and was written off. And he kept this book which then found its way to me as an interesting leftover literature piece. Rumour from final owner was was car he heard car had been resurrected but so far I've not been contacted by current owner who ought to be interested in its old comprehensively stamped book, if that Phoenix resurrection rumour is true.

The only explaination I can think of for AG regressing to KG months later (and it might also explain curiosity of why this book doesn't have the unique other number with star) is maybe PCGB AFN needed a small run of books ROW English at last gasp of longhood lifecycle to clear remaining new stock before impact bumper. Says 100 examples, a smallish print run -- maybe they got a small final batch hastily from Porsche Germany to tide over he last month of dealing in longhoods or maybe even just did print locally? Who knows but reverting to KG is certainly odd.

So, in addition to Ian's recent post, we collectively have now identified 4309.20 on three different versions i.e. three different first print dates with three different print run quantities. All three just for ROW English markets of 73 model year, it appears. Actually I happen know there is a fourth variant in English for model year 73-- yet another even earlier "quite distinctive" version used very some early examples that year. Front of this fourth one also has lineup TES with Carrera 2.7 in English. Printed and used even earlier than my XI/72 version TES Carrera 2.7 example (also posted by Ian). Be interesting to see if this fourth "noticeably unusual variation" as used temporarily at the earliest part of model year 73 also gets posted here, ideally showing its small print ID, date and quantity too. If one of those does get posted here I'll post my understanding as to why that earliest 73 model year booklet variant came about as the first version used for the one year only distinctive to 73 model lineup. But first lets see if picture of one of these gets posted to justify commenting.

Cheers

Steve

[IanM]

Here's another UK-supplied RHD car (not via AFN though)

That's perfectly fine. I don't know why I put AFN as the subject for this thread. I meant Att: RHD car owners (from any RHD countries).

[911MRP]

...no one has posted the earliest example of the model year 73 record (yet?). Some useful examples and questions raised even from the limited response to Ian's request (so far) but patchy sample makes it hard to draw any firm conclusions about overall complete set and the chronology of these ROW English record books. Nor about the unusual earliest model year 73 "Blue Peter" specials. Maybe these curiosities are rare or possibly only used for only one model? Doubt that but be interesting to see. If anyone here has got one of these in English with their car they'll know exactly what I mean by "Blue Peter" special"