Meagsquirt EFI on a 2.2T - Real time data view with iPad

impmad2000 · Post by **impmad2000** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:39 pm

Good to know you are still here Ian.
1 Zenith already on loan

Give it couple of week and we'll have a Megasquirt party round at Gary's place

Tim

Ian Donkin · Post by **Ian Donkin** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:45 am

Read the other posts afterwards Tim - an MS party sounds good to me!

Good luck Gary.

Nige · Post by **Nige** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:57 am

reminds me of the Tupperware parties my mum used to do!

Gary71 · Post by **Gary71** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:30 pm

An MS party?

I go to Germany for two days, come back and find people planning to sit in a circle whilst secretly arranging swinging sessions.....

Keep to the topic boys

Glenn75S · Post by **Glenn75S** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:41 pm

No think they were right you have more chance of getting your car running on Tupperware carbs........

The 42s are up for sale, I am looking for Zeniths to by with the money!!

Mittle Motor have one for £1000, sharnt be having that one!!

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:13 pm

Glenn75S wrote:No think they were right you have more chance of getting your car running on Tupperware carbs........

The 42s are up for sale, I am looking for Zeniths to by with the money!!

Mittle Motor have one for £1000, sharnt be having that one!!

Open your eyes, the futures bright, the futures MS

Gary71 · Post by **Gary71** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:48 am

I am looking for Zeniths to by with the money

It's too late!

Triumph bits are already bought, EDIS6 bits I'm going to source this week (or take Ian up on his kind offer), MS ECU is 'in discussion'

Open to advice here: I have contacted Bill someone who supplies MS ECU's in the UK and he recommended an standard MS V3 ECU with upgraded software rather than the MS II unit I was planning on. I'd rather use a standard unit than use a few random bits of code written by a knowledgeable enthusiast. Any opinions? My original decision for the MS II was because it has a superior processor and the ability to control spark, however the spark control is now available on the orginal MS….

Confused? Yup. I am…

Nige · Post by **Nige** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:33 am

Derek wrote:
Glenn75S wrote:No think they were right you have more chance of getting your car running on Tupperware carbs........

The 42s are up for sale, I am looking for Zeniths to by with the money!!

Mittle Motor have one for £1000, sharnt be having that one!!
Open your eyes, the futures bright, the futures MS

Cue my best saucey voice

'Now this isn't any ordinary EFI, its M&S own specially selected junk off an Engish motorbike EFI, mmmmm'

impmad2000 · Post by **impmad2000** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:55 am

Open to advice here: I have contacted Bill someone who supplies MS ECU's in the UK and he recommended an standard MS V3 ECU with upgraded software rather than the MS II unit I was planning on. I'd rather use a standard unit than use a few random bits of code written by a knowledgeable enthusiast. Any opinions? My original decision for the MS II was because it has a superior processor and the ability to control spark, however the spark control is now available on the orginal MS….

Confused? Yup. I am…

Bill is very knowlegeable on MS, and has been into it from the very beginning. He knows his stuff.
Your concern is understandable, and not unexpected. Here's some of my random thoughts, just my opinion you understand: -
The MS V3 is a very well tried and tested unit. It has been modded and developed since the beginning by a bunch of knowlegeable enthusiasts ! That is the nature of an open source project. If it works , it gets accepted into the code, if not it gets dropped or made to work. In reality, the MS Extra code is no different from the standard code, it just has a different feature set.
let me put it like this, The MS code has developed like building blocks, thhe core parts and then options that "plug in". THis has been developed around the core written by the originators (Bowling and Grippo) for the processor used in the V1, V2 and V3 (Probably 5 years work). Others have joined the project (As users) and developed the system based on the foundations laid down in the original code, but to include additions that individuals have needed or asked for. These bits in the end become stuck on the outside of the code, but not affecting the core code, but allow features like water injection, boost control, Fan control, and a multitude of ignition features to be added.
Taking the Feature set development outside of the core design has allowed the developers to start on the next generation code. Whilst it has its feet firmly set in the original code, it is different, less tried and tested. In this way, the MS II is perhaps the higher risk option ! I do not mean the the MS II is "buggy" code. B & G are exceptionally careful NOT to release a design until they have thoroughly tested it themselves first. MS would not be where it is today if it were not based on solid foundations. It is just that not as mant fit options hwill have been tried. A flat 6 Air cooled may present a different "unknown" to the design than the more familiar V8 Water cooled that most MS installs are on. My Maserati had an Odd fire V6 for instance - sparks are not evenly distributed, but done in three pairs - This was something that had not been foreseen. A quick code mod, and the fix is in the code. I did the mod, it was looked at, tested by the developers, tweeked and absorbed into the code. It is probably still there in the MS II code.
If this whole scenario does scare you, stop and take a look at DTA, Emerald and the others.... How many in the development team for these products ? How many giving direct feedback to the developers ? Now ask the same about an open source product like MS ! OK, a lot of the developers will be knowlegeable enthusiasts, but it does not mean that they are not highly skilled.... just try to follow some of the technical discussions on the MS forum - fascinating... from Inlet and plenum design, to combustion chambers, cams, spark. I have no doubt that MS, in any form is better supported than any product out there. There's 24hr International email support for a start....
My recommendations for anyone starting on a project like this is to do it in stages.
1) Monitor 1st - Make sure you are confident that the ECU works reliably.
2) Choose between spark or Fuel and switch to ONE only - I'd do spark first, 'cos you can switch between one and the other really easily as long as you've left the dizzy in place
3) Add the other - Fuel in my case, fuel pumps, throttle bodies, linkages may need to change , this will probably be harder to switch back.

In the end, the choice is always yours. Just pick up the phone, call the DTA/Emerald/Whoever installer and get them to do the lot for you. You'll pay a lot more, and won't learn anywhere near what you would if you did it the other way.
Just do it

Tim

hot66 · Post by **hot66** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:11 am

Gary, a lot of the VW crowd are now running full efi systems on their flat4's. I equiped my last 2276 motor with a Jenvey TB / DTA system.

Might be worth having a good look at some of their set ups

Ian Donkin · Post by **Ian Donkin** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:48 pm

I'm with Tim from the research I've done - V3 with the extra code.

I WILL get it done this winter.

Gary71 · Post by **Gary71** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:25 pm

Hi Tim, Ian,

Thanks for the advice

It's going to get done on a budget, I have no choice in that, so MS it is

I just want to make sure I'm picking the correct MS option, not one that will frustrate me!

Good thoughts about the open source nature. My concern stems from the fact that I am very much a user, not a developer so need to ensure all the feature is there that I need. No disrepect to any enthusiast skilled enough to make an engine run and work in the code

Much respect

A friend of mine has used Emerald for about 60K miles on his much modifed TVR and loves it, but you are looking at £750 before you even start on the fuel / intake / spark parts. However his engine did try to run backwards once...

I have read about the 'autotune' feature in Megatune, which seems desirable for on the fly detail tuning based on the output from a wideband lambda. My TVR owning friend has a wide band sensor and controller I'm going to borrow so that part is sorted!

The only other feature of MS II I liked was the ability to control a stepper motor idle speed control valve, rather than just an on/off solenoid. Maybe this is a refinement too far, considering I don't even have a choke at present, let alone detailed idle speed control during warm up!

Definitely going for the gradual switch over to MS, this has to be the correct route. Ignition first whilst I build up manifolds, fuel system etc and then make the big switch later in the year.

I'm planning to retain the standard airbox (whats left of it!) to get a decent plenum volume and maintain a standard (ish) looking (other than lack of a dizzy!) engine bay.

I'll do some more reading before I order (my brain is hurting

), but I think I'm just about there on my choice, with you guys on the standard MS V3 with the extra code for ignition control

impmad2000 · Post by **impmad2000** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:59 pm

Gary71 wrote: I just want to make sure I'm picking the correct MS option, not one that will frustrate me!

Ah, simple then.... sell it and buy another MX5 !

Gary71 · Post by **Gary71** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:31 pm

Just registered on the MS forum and sent off a note to the UK guy who does the extra code for a quote for an assembled ECU. Probably about £250. He can also integrate the coil control, which is tempting from a tidy wiring perspective and costs about the same as the EDIS6 coil controller (£30)

Where did you guys get your EDIS6 stuff from, I'm currently looking around UK scrappers for a pre 95 Mondeo V6 auto, and have found one, but they are rare beasts.

impmad2000 · Post by **impmad2000** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:14 pm

Integrated coil control sounds interesting. I can't say I've been keeping exactly up to date recently...
I got my Edis 6 as a set from someone on ebay. A fellow MSer who had changed plans...
I think the edis 6 is on some Granada Scorpio's too (?) perhaps... rare indeed. Just get one from the US.
Anyway, got the car back yet ??
Cheers
Tim