Harry’s garage update - junk ‘genuine’ parts

[hot66]

Just watched Harry’s end of year update . Interesting to hear some post resto talk regarding his jag and Lambo and some of the original parts he replaced with genuine new parts

Jag, :

1. official Jag split return fuel valves , multiple failures

2. Injectors again multiple failures

Lambo:

Countach , new gearbox parts incorrectly manufactured

Espada: rotor arms and caps incorrect sizes


I’m sure there will be more items too.

Doesn’t bode well for classics going forward if the genuine parts are junk.

We’re pretty lucky with Porsche parts but we do have plenty of junk out there too

[yoda]

I watched that and thought the same. Hoping Porsche quality prevails!!

[AndrewSlater]

When I watched the update - I thought that considering he had spent a lot of serious money with a number of specialists they had returned him with faulty cars blaming the parts.
For example - I would have expected a specialist to spot that the new rotor arm wasn't the same size as the one he was replacing - bit of a schoolboy error.

I can see why he says he's not going to doing any new restorations in 2023 - he must be pretty disappointed in the process so far.
He's still got to start driving the Lancia - wonder what problems he will find with that after his £80k+ restoration.

Hopefully he can get them all sorted and back to running - then he can move on and post some entertaining road trip videos.

[Ashley James]

Replacement parts are a nightmare for any make of old car, even from official suppliers. I’ve rebuilt many cars and bikes over the years, most recently 2x MK VI Bentleys, Bristol 400, TR3A, AH 3000 and my 356. I won’t even bother to list all the grief it causes, but imagine doing it for a living, completely rebuilding a 1938 Citroen Traction to concours that’s then been exported to Jersey.

New fuel pump failed as did wheel bearings after 70 miles. Turns out the supplier knew they were rubbish but worried good ones at €240 wouldn’t sell.

Garage in Jersey have fitted two more crap bearings for £2,400 and my son is expected to pay.

Things have always been bad. I remember that Francis Beart switched to Aermaachi from Manx Norton around fifty years ago because Norton parts were rubbish and kept breaking.

Labour rates are so high now that it costs at least £500,000 to rebuild an R-R Phantom III, over £100,000 to buy and it’ll be worth say £300,000 if you sell it.

Harry’s expenditure sounds reasonable if you can do nothing yourself.

However I do worry that many will be discouraged by the problems caused by crap parts and lose interest.

Most of what I bought for the 356 was good.

[andytat]

I can relate to that.
Porsche parts suppliers are not immune from this problem.

[gridgway]

Even buying a ford clutch release bearing and carrier from Burton Power... The bearing is supposed to be pressed onto the carrier when it's 0.3mm id too small. That doesn't work. So the carrier will need to be turned down to fit. Two £30 parts and £40 from the fab to make them fit together, for a xflow!!

[911hillclimber]

I've had this across several very different 'areas', from model aeroplanes to Lambretta restoration parts.
If the manufacturer does no Quality checking assuming he has been given some to meet) then thing go wrong.
The retailer does none, and generally is powerless to effect change, and in my latest experience will simply ignore you.

Most parts from China and India can have this issue, but from when I worked with the Chinese in particular, they were very careful, but you needed to keep on top of them.

[dean1057]

A few years ago when I was restoring my 70s 2 door V8 range rover, I stupidly replaced things like points and condenser like you do thinking I don't want them letting me down.
A month later the car starting missing and running terrible until on my way home it completely packed in and wouldn't start, looked around pulled leads checked wiring and still couldn't get it going so had to phone the AA.
He ended up saying it sounds like the condenser, lucky for me I'd not thrown any of the old parts away, slipped the old condenser on the car fired up, looked pretty old, just goes to show that the new stuff is garbage.
Changed to electronic ignition and then sold the truck.

[Jonny Hart]

I've had this across several very different 'areas', from model aeroplanes to Lambretta restoration parts.
If the manufacturer does no Quality checking assuming he has been given some to meet) then thing go wrong.
The retailer does none, and generally is powerless to effect change, and in my latest experience will simply ignore you.

Most parts from China and India can have this issue, but from when I worked with the Chinese in particular, they were very careful, but you needed to keep on top of them.

As a manufacturer AND a retailer, keeping on top of QA is an endless task. The deepest frustration is when you have made something correctly for years and then suddenly you get problems:

Examples:

1) You would think that if you contracted out - say - a wiring harness to a wiring harness company and they had made this harness at least a thousand times and have a test rig for said harness then there cannot be any errors? Not so it seems - we get the wrong connector shell put on one of the connectors or the pins pushed into the wrong holes on the connector. Of course, harness is supplied to us 'tested' in a sealed bag. So with 200 in stock, do you open them all up to check? Reject them all? Send them out ( some will be going to the other side of the World)? This happened a few times due to staff shortages and retraining shortcuts during the pandemic.

2) What about if you paid a company to pack your products? There's a packing list with part numbers and quantities, simples. Until someone misreads a 5 for a 6 and instead of 3 bolts in a pack of fittings, you get 3 capacitors. Again, all packed in a bag, in a box, sealed.

3) Machines don't make mistakes do they? When you make a PCB, the components come on a reel from which they are placed by a robot onto a circuit board before soldering. All the components in the reel face the same way so how do you get a PCB made with the component the wrong way round? Why does this happen all of a sudden during the pandemic? The reason is that during the chip shortages, the PCB manufacturers, instead of getting whole reels of say 5000 parts, they would get part reels or strips of a few 100 components. To load the machine, the strips have to be joined together into a whole reel. Of course, a human has to do this and where the strip gets cut and joined, the components at the end may fall out and have to be manually put back into its position in the strip - not always the correct way round of course.

4) Laser cut and folded metal parts. Made by robots - accurate to 0.001mm. Still, if the operator loads the cut sheet metal into the folder the wrong way up, the whole part is folded inside out and therefore junk.

We try to test everything that leaves our building at a system level but this is not possible with everything (e.g. A/C compressors would require a system to be plumbed, gassed up and run which is not realistic so we have to rely on the manufacturer testing).

[Bootsy]

Real life examples with a real insight!

[sladey]

Yep thanks for sharing Johnny

[NurLinks]

How about my recent experience with parts for my 3.3 turbo:

The infamous 'red relays'? The literally fall apart when opening the bag. Genuine Porsche part. Those that are operable are prone to failure, which is inconvenient to say the least since they operate the fuel pumps. I now carry a spare AND a spare spare, in case the spare fails

Electric window switches. Again: Genuine Porsche part in 'Porsche' branded bag, bought from main dealer. Really cheap quality, both in terms of looks and components. I ended up cleaning the 37 old ones which now work perfectly

Electric window motors. Genuine Porsche part, 'Porsche' branded packaging. Wrong number of teeth although ordered with the VIN number.

Front wing. Genuine Porsche part. One of the worst fitting panels I've ever seen. Furthermore the spring operated fuel flap didn't pop open (let alone stay open, like it should). The bodyshop spent hours getting this mess right.

The worst thing is that Porsche (mostly) successfully tries to stop their original suppliers from delivering parts and forcing them into the classic scheme. E.g. Bosch parts, Behr coolers (for my 928) etcetera. So increasingly and especially for the lower volume models, we are forced to buy shitty 'genuine Porsche' against extortionist prices or gamble by buying 'unbranded' parts.

[sisu]

I agree that you could bemoan the parts manufacturers. But I get the feeling there are people leaning into this than finding a solution, Harrys Espada has been at Ians since October. This is why places have a dyno, so they can run a car and tune it, rather than a gingerly drive around the airport boundry road. There are electronic ignition systems for V12s that bolt on. This is not an Espada only weakness.
The Jag XJC was bad, I mean this 'issue' has been happening with Jags for over 40 years, the shady injectors, the tanks pissing themselves. It is classic bodyshop guys view of the car, they bolt back the bits, wipe it down and that is as far as it goes. The fact Harry spent an extra £8000 to get the car running is not a good look.
As for the Lancia, well hopefully it holds together better. You get the feeling the guys actually want to retune it after its been broken in.
Harry is a comes across as a decent guy, but even this can't hide the clangers with these restorations

[gridgway]

I guess there's a reality to a resto that it needs lots of tlc, testing and reworking. The problem is that the economics fail. The price to do that is too high.

I remember going to the Dino guys in the peak district many years ago, Cartwright? They said they'd stopped restoring dinos as the economics didn't work. Cost far more to restore than the market value

I guess that is still so.

[911hillclimber]

I feel as a particular model rises in value, pumped-up by magazines and You Tube etc the costs rise to restore them.
I would argue the cost to fit an MGB sill set is much the same as a 911 sill set in time. I've done both in my time, with my own hands and DIY throughout.
Cut out, new panels, make good inner areas, weld, panel fits (MG people like 4mm panel gaps too) post welding prep etc are all the same.

The MG is worth less than a 911, but I expect today the cost for the 911 is more than the MG.

Harry has chosen fabulous cars to fix or rather to have fixed, cars worth a lot retail and so the restoration costs commensurate to the selling price.

It is very hard to have a car built and come out with a profit, it is hard enough doing it all DIY, but you stand a good chance of doing it.
Keep the car for a long time and you certainly can see a good profit if the car rises in popularity.

Harry will get all his £££ back over a long timescale.