The cost of filling up your car ...
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Re: The cost of filling up your car ...
It's not free as somebody is paying for it somewhere along the line...
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Re: The cost of filling up your car ...
Yep, your taxes Keith, but don’t worry it’s good for the environment those electric cars charged from those coal fired power stationsKS wrote:It's not free as somebody is paying for it somewhere along the line...
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Re: The cost of filling up your car ...
I have an I-Pace EV but I don’t think it’s the panacea at all, for all the embedded carbon arguments (although we do have a 100% renewable electricity tariff with Octopus at least). It gives me about 240 miles on a full charge but I rarely do a long journey (Le Mans 24 hrs never again!) - my commute is 20 miles each way and I have a 7kW wall box at home and the office, so range is not a problem and charging at the office is a taxable expense and free to me.
I believe that come 2030, given that there will still be millions of ICE vehicles on the road (plenty of 10-20 year old ‘modern’ cars still on the road today, let alone all the ICE ‘proper’ classics), and possibly issues with supply of batteries and no financial benefit for EVs, there will be a multitude of different powered vehicles to be accommodated at filling & charging stations, much like the multitude of different energy generation solutions (gas, coal (no!), nuclear, wind, solar etc).
Then there is the question of synthetic fuels and hydrogen to be added into the mix, both of which can be - I am told (but am no expert on this) - stored in, and delivered by, conventional filling stations with some adaptation to pumps etc, subject to being able to produce it in sufficient quantities and at an acceptable price point (whatever that might be in these times of high energy costs). It’s an interesting subject…
I believe that come 2030, given that there will still be millions of ICE vehicles on the road (plenty of 10-20 year old ‘modern’ cars still on the road today, let alone all the ICE ‘proper’ classics), and possibly issues with supply of batteries and no financial benefit for EVs, there will be a multitude of different powered vehicles to be accommodated at filling & charging stations, much like the multitude of different energy generation solutions (gas, coal (no!), nuclear, wind, solar etc).
Then there is the question of synthetic fuels and hydrogen to be added into the mix, both of which can be - I am told (but am no expert on this) - stored in, and delivered by, conventional filling stations with some adaptation to pumps etc, subject to being able to produce it in sufficient quantities and at an acceptable price point (whatever that might be in these times of high energy costs). It’s an interesting subject…
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'72 S 230 0347 (two-owner tangerine unicorn)
Re: The cost of filling up your car ...
My mate has fuel stations / lorry parks. They’re installing hydrogen storage / pumps at 2 of their sites for commercial haulage use
James
1973 911 2.4S
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Its not how fast you go, but how you go fast
1973 911 2.4S
1993 964 C2
2010 987 Spyder
1973 MGB Roadster
Its not how fast you go, but how you go fast
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Re: The cost of filling up your car .
You call it free, you mean free at the point of consumption.210bhp wrote:Charging is free in Scotland at the government chargers, ChargePlaceScotland. There are currently about 2500 charge points and expanding. I have 8 close to my work (a town with a population of 7000) and two about 400yards from the house (a village with a population of 550) so it’s just not worth having a home charger even with a grant to install. Why would you use your own payable electricity? Kudos to the Scottish government for making it so easy and very local. You have to buy a £25 enrollment fee (which my car dealer kindly included with the car) and you get a credit card and an app on your phone either of which can be used to activate any charger. The car does about 300 miles in the summer and 220 in the winter on a full charge which does me all week even if I don’t top up. I charge once a week overnight at the weekend at home or all one day when at work. It takes about 5 hours to fully charge. I do have PV panels at home but leave them to generate my feed in tariff.
Here’s the app,
Scotland seems to be ahead of the game at this point but how long free charging will last is anybody’s guess. So far so good.
Regards
Mike
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Re: The cost of filling up your car ...
> You call it free, you mean free at the point of consumption
You’re right, in the John Locke / Ultra Nate sense it’s far from free. And in the Marxist sense it couldn’t be further from freedom to use taxes (disproportionately paid for by poorer people) to subsidise the lifestyle choices of people who can afford £40,000 cars.
But Mike probably just meant free when he plugged his car in to fill it with electric.
You’re right, in the John Locke / Ultra Nate sense it’s far from free. And in the Marxist sense it couldn’t be further from freedom to use taxes (disproportionately paid for by poorer people) to subsidise the lifestyle choices of people who can afford £40,000 cars.
But Mike probably just meant free when he plugged his car in to fill it with electric.
964 C2 Targa. 205 1.6 GTi. Testarossa. Fisher Fury Fireblade. Motorhome. Motorbikes. Scooters. Pushbikes. Threadbare Saucony Peregrines. Dog. Human relations and friends. 97.5%-built house.
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Re: The cost of filling up your car ...
There is a blindness to electricity.
It just comes out of the wall and you pay for it, nowadays quite a lot. You just plug in and all is great, few have a power station in their back yard, or a forest of windmills on their horizon.
240v is dirty, you just don't see the source, don't smell it, don't taste it (etc) so the pollution isn't there, thus it is green n clean.
Materials for batteries are mined in places few have heard of by people who are out of sight, so easy to turn away from, so 'don't exist'.
Not enough is on TV about the start to finish of EV's and other vehicles to the ideal of Zero Emissions (from these sources), a dream impossible to reach.
Cars are an easy-to-reach target, power supply certainly is not when you have only the optionof a dirty voltage supply.
It just comes out of the wall and you pay for it, nowadays quite a lot. You just plug in and all is great, few have a power station in their back yard, or a forest of windmills on their horizon.
240v is dirty, you just don't see the source, don't smell it, don't taste it (etc) so the pollution isn't there, thus it is green n clean.
Materials for batteries are mined in places few have heard of by people who are out of sight, so easy to turn away from, so 'don't exist'.
Not enough is on TV about the start to finish of EV's and other vehicles to the ideal of Zero Emissions (from these sources), a dream impossible to reach.
Cars are an easy-to-reach target, power supply certainly is not when you have only the optionof a dirty voltage supply.
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Re: The cost of filling up your car ...
This was an interesting programme earlier this year on BBC Radio 4. Worth a listen...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00162yr
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00162yr
Re: The cost of filling up your car ...
You are starting to touch on my objections to EV's : Add in .... things like , how will they be disposed of , what happens to batteries that are past their "useful life" , I just can't imagine who will want to buy a 20 or 30 year old electric vehicle (maybe someone will buy them up cheap and convert them to diesel power ............ eh ??). I suspect if one could do a proper analysis on the "greenness" of their life from cradle to grave - including the colour of the electricity used ..... one might find they are NOT actually that kind to the environment at all. Kind of glad that I'm probably not going to be here when this really all takes affect (guess 20 to 30 years from now)911hillclimber wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:17 am There is a blindness to electricity.
It just comes out of the wall and you pay for it, nowadays quite a lot. You just plug in and all is great, few have a power station in their back yard, or a forest of windmills on their horizon.
240v is dirty, you just don't see the source, don't smell it, don't taste it (etc) so the pollution isn't there, thus it is green n clean.
Materials for batteries are mined in places few have heard of by people who are out of sight, so easy to turn away from, so 'don't exist'.
Not enough is on TV about the start to finish of EV's and other vehicles to the ideal of Zero Emissions (from these sources), a dream impossible to reach.
Cars are an easy-to-reach target, power supply certainly is not when you have only the optionof a dirty voltage supply.
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Rally 911 (1966) build parked for a while
Rally 928 (work started again - inc serious weight loss programe !)
.... and now another VW Up GTI owner.
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Re: The cost of filling up your car ...
Used batteries will be recycled; it'll be like cat converters now, but even more organised. And of course the organised crime is coming.
1970 911T, Signal orange (Restoration thread)
1988 3.2 Carrera backdate, Black
2001 996 Turbo, Lapis blue (am I allowed to put that here?)
I'm looking for a pre-impact bumper 911S or other high-revving 911 to restore - please let me know if you see one.
1988 3.2 Carrera backdate, Black
2001 996 Turbo, Lapis blue (am I allowed to put that here?)
I'm looking for a pre-impact bumper 911S or other high-revving 911 to restore - please let me know if you see one.
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Re: The cost of filling up your car ...
And people don’t buy 20 or 30 year old petrol and diesel cars, they get dismantled too. Engines and get boxes don’t last forever either and oil isn’t exactly free from human rights issues.
EVs are a fancy new consumer product that the people making them want you to buy even though you probably could do without one, companies are known to do that. They’re not going to cure climate change but they will make villages quieter and as electricity generation gets cleaner they’ll be better and better for the world.
Get one or don’t, whatever suits where you live and what you need to do. You don’t have to justify your choices to Elon Musk or the Just Stop Oil lot or anyone else. It’s all gravy.
EVs are a fancy new consumer product that the people making them want you to buy even though you probably could do without one, companies are known to do that. They’re not going to cure climate change but they will make villages quieter and as electricity generation gets cleaner they’ll be better and better for the world.
Get one or don’t, whatever suits where you live and what you need to do. You don’t have to justify your choices to Elon Musk or the Just Stop Oil lot or anyone else. It’s all gravy.
964 C2 Targa. 205 1.6 GTi. Testarossa. Fisher Fury Fireblade. Motorhome. Motorbikes. Scooters. Pushbikes. Threadbare Saucony Peregrines. Dog. Human relations and friends. 97.5%-built house.
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Re: The cost of filling up your car .
So Scotland is giving away free fuel......FFFS WHY?
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Winston
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The cost of filling up your car ...
Yes indeed. Porsche are working on synthetic fuels too, but Paddy Lowe at Zero is definitely one to watch and is clearly well-advanced with his roll-out plans.
'72 T 210 2176 (ex-Hawaii donor car for '72 M491 2.5 SR)
'72 S 230 0347 (two-owner tangerine unicorn)
'72 S 230 0347 (two-owner tangerine unicorn)
Re: The cost of filling up your car ...
This is an interesting watch from Sammatteo68 wrote:Yes indeed. Porsche are working on synthetic fuels too, but Paddy Lowe at Zero is definitely one to watch and is clearly well-advanced with his roll-out plans.
https://youtu.be/kxsDxZmidtg
James
1973 911 2.4S
1993 964 C2
2010 987 Spyder
1973 MGB Roadster
Its not how fast you go, but how you go fast
1973 911 2.4S
1993 964 C2
2010 987 Spyder
1973 MGB Roadster
Its not how fast you go, but how you go fast