HERO

[Mat2.2t]

Hi

Is anybody here involved with any Historic Endurance Rallying ?

The events look quite cool, but a little unrealistic for me to attend as other than Le Jog and the Malts they appear to be in China, Portugal & Africa!

Does anyone know if there are more local/national events of a similar nature?

I'm interested to find out more, if anybody has attended the events or organised them and what constitutes an elgible car etc.

[Ian Gunney]

My father prepared one of the cars taking part in the London to Sydney event that finished earlier this month - taking part in some of these events requires serious financial resources!

[Andrew Ish]

There really is a wide spectrum of Events available for historic vehicles nowadays. Assuming you are interested in road events then these range from short day classic tours in the UK following easy to read navigation instructions through a range of regularity events held either daytime or nightime or both through to week long Events such as the Malts that you have seen.
Many of the events mix road use with short sections of off-road driving which could be forest tracks or privately owned tarmac or airfields.

If your initial interest is in the UK then the best place to start looking for info is the Historic Rally Car Register which organises several championships. They have a website - search for HRCR and are also going to be holding a start of year open day at Gaydon if thats in your neck of the woods.

Another good event which will help you get a feel for whats on is the International Historic Motorsport Show help at Stoneleigh late Feb.

I bought an old 911 6 months ago to do some of the longer distance events (not London to Sydney distances I hasten to add) and have since been down to the Pyrenees and the Italian Lakes on two separate Events. I can highly recommend it.

I also did LeJog a few years ago but that really is tough on crew and car.

In terms of finances, starting with UK based day events is obviously a much more affordable way to see if you like the format.

Happy to provide any more info, let me know

Andrew

[Herr Kuult]

Hi Mat,

I've done the LeJog rally a few times, twice in a 911 in fact (including this year). I've done all types of historic road rallying, including a few overseas events, but nothing compares to LeJog. As Andrew says, it can be a bit tough on the car, but I think the organisers are generally toning it down to suit the wider point of view. For me, there is no better historic road rally in Britain. Unfortunately, the entry fee is not cheap, so you have to make sure you really want to do it.

The 911 is a very good car for the event too. It's very comfortable over long distances (provided you don't have knackered seats from the 60s), is quick enough to make the job a little easier for the crew and has plenty of traction in case of severe mud (or snow....).

The only downside is that many people in the historic road rally scene consider that the use of a 911 is a bit like the proverbial sledge hammer and nut. I don't quite agree with this point of view. Whilst they are certainly good cars for the job, they don't give the crew a tremendous advantage over highly tuned MGBs, Alpines, TRs, etc. In any case, the driver still has to get the best out of the car which, in the case of a 911, is not a job for for the inadequately skilled (this isn't me being cocky - I'm the navigator).

I second Andrew's comment that you will probably find the HRCR open day at the British Motor Heritage Centre, Gaydon (14th Jan) to be very useful. There you will be able to meet the organisers of the different types of events, plus speak to other competitors (like myself.....) to get an idea of what events will suit you.

Good luck,
Paul.

P.S. Whilst LeJog seems to be a little less arduous than in years gone by, you will still expect a good bit of wear an tear on the car, especially if the underside is not protected. It is not the event on which to take your concours RSR (should you have one tucked away in the garage). The same can be said for most road rallies though.....

[Andrew Ish]

Paul,
If you've been using your 911 on historic road events I'll take the opportunity to ask what noise readings you tend to get with it. So far I've only used the 911 on European Events that havn't been too strict on noise thresholds. When I first bought the car, standard 2.2T, it has quite a noisy silencer which registered well over 105dbA on a borrowed noise meter. I've since fitted a standard stainless silencer and I forget what the reading is now but its still in the 100s. As such I've so far baulked at entering any of the British day events with their 98dbA thresholds.

Although the car is undoubtedly quieter than my mini the combined effects of air cooled, rear engine with fan gives the noise meter so much more to register on than simply the exhaust exit.

I've seen a 2.7 RS competing which does apparently make it at 97dbA. I'm wondering whether the MFI tends to be a little quieter than carbs.

Anyway, interested in your experience

thanks
Andrew

[pauladev]

I guess you have had a look at the HERO site:-
http://www.hero.org.uk/index.htm
There are a full set of the regulations on there which may answer your question on eligibility

I have been on the HERO London-Lisbon Rally twice - 2002 as a navigator in a 1928 Lea Francis, and this year as driver in my 914-6. I found them a very professional and friendly organisation, which has only been improved this year by the change of management in the Classic Section, allowing the original founder, John Brown to concentrate on the 4x4 Rallies (China, South America etc). Peter Nedin, who now 'owns' the Classic section is very approachable, and of the enterprises that run Classic rallies, HERO, I have heard is one of the best, and from what I have experienced, this would seem to be so.

[Nick Moss]

Guys, I'm impressed by the depth of rally experience on here! I have been servicing on various natonal and international rallies over the last 30 plus years and modern arllies aren't what the old ones were. The RAC back in the 70s was 5 days with just one night of rest. It covered the whole of Great Britain and was very hard work even to service as a private entry. Its good to see that some of these modern endurance events are as tough as the old days. The car I normally navigate these days has just completed the East African Safari in 7th place. That apparently was a real tough one. The suspension had to be changed every night and they completed one day with the front suspension held together with a tie-down strap after the bottom knuckle broke away from the strut.

I'm sure the HERO events aren't that rough but I'm sure they require quite a bit od persistance. Good luck.

[tanick]

Is Hero the one run by John Brown?

[Andrew Ish]

Is Hero the one run by John Brown?

Used to be. As Paul points out in his post above, John Brown now concentrates on the 4x4xplore events and the HERO Classic Car events are run under new management.

Andrew

[Andrew Ish]

I guess you have had a look at the HERO site:-
http://www.hero.org.uk/index.htm
There are a full set of the regulations on there which may answer your question on eligibility

Thanks, I've got a copy of the HERO regs. and in fact on HERO Events I'd be very surprised if noise would be a problem.

My interest wasn't really one of understanding the regs. but more of knowing that the daytime HRCR championship events all noise test for a threshold of 98dbA at 0.5m and 4,500 and I know my car in std tune with std silencer is noisier than this, and I was keen to canvas anyone else's experiences. Speaking to Richard Tuthill, the 911 does tend to always struggle on this.

I remember many years ago failing 113db Hillclimb noise tests with a race spec Hillman Imp engine and I couldn't understand how all the similar engined vehicles were passing. I soon found out that no one else was owning up to the 9,000 rpm maximum and were consequently being tested at lower rpm. You live and learn.

Andrew

[tanick]

Quote:
Is Hero the one run by John Brown?



Used to be. As Paul points out in his post above, John Brown now concentrates on the 4x4xplore events and the HERO Classic Car events are run under new management.

Sorry I didn't read the full thread. I met the end of the London to Capetown rally in Capetown in Nov 98. My in-laws did a few of the early long distance rallies.

[Herr Kuult]

Andrew,

The 911 I'm involved with usually just scrapes in on the noise limit. It has a standard mild steel silencer, which replaced the (noisier) stainless item that was fitted before. The stainless ones tend to ring a bit more than the "deader" mild steel ones, which increases the noise reading. If you have a mild steel silencer available, try fitting it for a comparison. I bet it brings a reduction. Our car has Webers with the standard 1967 air cleaner arrangement - soon to replaced with performance filters. It'll be interesting to see (or hear) if they make the noise significantly worse.....

Some of the noise comes from the driveline, and the car usually reads quite a bit lower if the driver puts it in a high hear, and then just brings the clutch up to the point where it's beginning to drag a little. It eliminates some of the harsh noise caused by all the play/backlash in the line. Perhaps you do this already. If not, give it a go.

In my experience of HERO noise checks (only on LeJog), they are quite serious about it, but in the end are unlikely to turn anyone away from Land's End unless they are taking the p155 will megaphones, etc.

If the car fails the close range test, I believe you can request that the car is re-tested at 90° at a range of 3m or so. Obviously the noise limit is lower at that range, but it tends to be a fairer test for anything with the motor in the back. It's all in the MSA blue book.

I also do some rallies in a works replica Imp, and before the last event (an HRCR round) the scrutineer told us that all HRCR tests were moving towards this 90°/3m test. This could be confirmed by ringing someone like Paul Loveridge at the HRCR - check their website for his contact details.

In the end, there are plenty of 911s doing road rallying, and as long as your exhaust system is pretty standard, I'd be surprised if they wouldn't allow you to start. Perhaps see you on an event next year......

Cheers,
Paul.