Off topic cycling chat for the cyclisti out there..

[912uk]

mjh, nail on the head there, it's very stiff and I think as nice as it is I am frightened to break it.. although i know now there are companies that fix carbon frames and I would be confident of the repair seeing the state some bikes end up.. I never thought of going Titanium so I would be interested in looking into it more..
Your right about the every gram counts I think like some folk here on the watch front I got so involved with the detail I pulled the trigger in my mind on an amazing product but really it's wasted on me as an average rider.. it was as good as brand new and I got it for around £800 off it's list price when it was new as in year so it was a good deal at the time. I have a fellow rider who has always hankered after it so I may see how serious he is.. over winter I have been back on my other CUBE Carbon and Alu mix and apart from the gears it's not a huge amount difference really.. but I can't change the gears on my other bike as it would involve too much to make it economical upgrade I would be better as you know to look for a new bike.. to be honest Mark ( 356 Convertable D Mark ) now runs a bike shop in London, he said years back really carbon frames are throw away items.. and reading one of the cycle mags artical out in the far east a company admitted to dumping all the carbon off cuts into the sea to get rid of them!!! so there is an enviromental issue of mass production if this is true. I think CUBE make their own in Germany ...I am not sure but I think I saw a video of them making them..

[christaylorsound]

Carbon frames Do break, I broke 2 in last 12 months. 1st was Bottom Bracket separating from frame due to years of use, next I bought an expensive Italian branded frame from Planet X which had a push fit BB30 which (as they all do) creaked. I ended up gluing in the BB with bearing assembly fluid. It still creaked but was in so strongly fixed in that it destroyed the frame on disassembly!! I then bought another Italian branded frame from Planet X this time with a BS threaded BB shell, and so far no problems!
My advice would be go carbon from a discount retailer (they are mostly all made in same factory in far east anyway, despite brand/price) not spend too much, get a BS BB shell and regard it as disposable if it breaks. OR go for a Planet X spitfire Ti frame @ £600 especially if you have a suitable fork available from one of your crashed/broken alloy/carbon previous frames!
Other retailers are available..... Chris.

[912uk]

No, your right. Planet X do some good frames I was looking at buying one spare in the Christmas sale as they where clearing 2017 stock for 2018..
I was reading the new 2018 C68 is now £5995 no wonder he is keen on my older model I quite fancy building up a bike so I may well do that go for the X frame and build up from there.. but I would love to ride a Ti frame and see.. really my old CUBE apart from gears is perfectly good to be honest and for Sunday riding more in the summer it's good enough if I am honest and not vaine to be seen on the must have bike but us 912 owners have got to have some glory some times I thought the watch and Ski/Snow board world was full of detail experts till I got back into cycling OMG I just try and let it wash over my head. London to Brighton this year interests me.. and next year I want to gear up for London to Paris.

[mjh356@hotmail.com]

Mark et als.

I have seen a LOT of carbon frames and a LOT of damaged frames. Personally, I would not repair a carbon frame unless returned to the manufacturer who is willing to warrantee it and be liable for any issue thereafter. There is carbon and there is carbon. Compare a Planet-X and Storck frame. Miles appart in quality and strength/resiliance, the difference is in the quality of the materials and the weave of the carbon. Cheap carbon is cheap or a reason. Premium brands will charge a premium because they can. However, the quality comparison against the bargain frames is often poles apart. Don't get me wrong, Carbon frames are excellent for a role. Many people buy a carbon frame not really knowing what they are buying and buy on price. We deal with Storck, Pinarello, Cervelo etc frames which are beautiful both in form and in mechanical function and streets apart from the Planet-X etc bikes. These are tools for a job where every gramme counts and performance needs to be 100%. The sacrifice ultimately is longevity.

The other alternative for an all-rounder is Ti. Not as cheap as cheap carbon, but, IMHO a nicer ride and also it has greater longevity with loads of options on kit and upgradability. If anyone is interested we have demo Ti Lynskey framed bike people can borrow and test ride. No obligation.

just my opinion.

Mark

[Hugh Jorgan]

Mark et als.

I have seen a LOT of carbon frames and a LOT of damaged frames. Personally, I would not repair a carbon frame unless returned to the manufacturer who is willing to warrantee it and be liable for any issue thereafter. There is carbon and there is carbon. Compare a Planet-X and Storck frame. Miles appart in quality and strength/resiliance, the difference is in the quality of the materials and the weave of the carbon. Cheap carbon is cheap or a reason. Premium brands will charge a premium because they can. However, the quality comparison against the bargain frames is often poles apart. Don't get me wrong, Carbon frames are excellent for a role. Many people buy a carbon frame not really knowing what they are buying and buy on price. We deal with Storck, Pinarello, Cervelo etc frames which are beautiful both in form and in mechanical function and streets apart from the Planet-X etc bikes. These are tools for a job where every gramme counts and performance needs to be 100%. The sacrifice ultimately is longevity.

The other alternative for an all-rounder is Ti. Not as cheap as cheap carbon, but, IMHO a nicer ride and also it has greater longevity with loads of options on kit and upgradability. If anyone is interested we have demo Ti Lynskey framed bike people can borrow and test ride. No obligation.

just my opinion.

Mark

You're exactly right, some things are cheap for reason, and whilst Planet X do some very 'good value' stuff, I'm not sure I'd call it top quality. That's my personal opinion just in case their lawyers are on this!!

IMHO, you still can't beat steel for ride quality, a well built, modern lightweight steel frame is hard to beat, and you can buy British.
I've not had a Ti frame yet though.
I've been a Colnago fan for years, 2 C40's, C50 and now the best, a C60. They're not cheap but they are amazingly good. I've had quite a few Treks over the years as my mate is a dealer, Bianchi's, Giant….. the list goes on.
If I was only allowed one bike it would be steel.

[christaylorsound]

I'm not as convinced as you guys that they aren't identical, at least as the major brand's cheaper stuff. For example I had a Planet X TT frame a few years ago and in the same year a TDF team (Cadel Evans' team) were on Ridley bikes. Guess what? EXACT same frame from exact same mould in far east...... It's called an 'open mould' ie. the manufacturer (usually in China) will sell frames from the mould to anybody, no exclusivity deal. I'm sure a real Pinarello is from a unique mould and for the money you'd expect it, but in addition to Planet X, Dolan and Ribble both respected UK manufacturers get their frames from open moulds and who would argue they were 2nd rate?

My 2p. Chris.

[neilbardsley]

Mark et als.

I have seen a LOT of carbon frames and a LOT of damaged frames. Personally, I would not repair a carbon frame unless returned to the manufacturer who is willing to warrantee it and be liable for any issue thereafter. There is carbon and there is carbon. Compare a Planet-X and Storck frame. Miles appart in quality and strength/resiliance, the difference is in the quality of the materials and the weave of the carbon. Cheap carbon is cheap or a reason. Premium brands will charge a premium because they can. However, the quality comparison against the bargain frames is often poles apart. Don't get me wrong, Carbon frames are excellent for a role. Many people buy a carbon frame not really knowing what they are buying and buy on price. We deal with Storck, Pinarello, Cervelo etc frames which are beautiful both in form and in mechanical function and streets apart from the Planet-X etc bikes. These are tools for a job where every gramme counts and performance needs to be 100%. The sacrifice ultimately is longevity.

The other alternative for an all-rounder is Ti. Not as cheap as cheap carbon, but, IMHO a nicer ride and also it has greater longevity with loads of options on kit and upgradability. If anyone is interested we have demo Ti Lynskey framed bike people can borrow and test ride. No obligation.

just my opinion.

Mark

You're exactly right, some things are cheap for reason, and whilst Planet X do some very 'good value' stuff, I'm not sure I'd call it top quality. That's my personal opinion just in case their lawyers are on this!!

IMHO, you still can't beat steel for ride quality, a well built, modern lightweight steel frame is hard to beat, and you can buy British.
I've not had a Ti frame yet though.
I've been a Colnago fan for years, 2 C40's, C50 and now the best, a C60. They're not cheap but they are amazingly good. I've had quite a few Treks over the years as my mate is a dealer, Bianchi's, Giant….. the list goes on.
If I was only allowed one bike it would be steel.

My understanding was that only a few frames aren't open mould? Most are made in the same factory and have different decals put on. How many people have had a frame break on them? I've cracked two Alu frame but my carbon focus mtb took quite a lot of abuse.

Given that none of us are going to win the tdf or even a local 3/4 cat race. I suspect that if we did buy a Planet X bike we would still be the weak link?

I seem to remember a few years ago that Chris Boardman pointed out that having no vents on your helmet returned much more speed than lightweight aero wheels at 20 times the cost.

[Hugh Jorgan]

C60's are lugged and still made in the factory in Italy, I believe the rest of the range is made in the far east. Parlee do lugged frames which are hugely expensive but stunning, and there are a few other bespoke carbon frame builders out there.

My racing (and winning) (occasionally) days are over, but it still feels good, on a nice day, to get out on your best bike.

Boardman/Obree, marginal gains and the Manchester Velodrome effect changed cycling for ever, but the best person usually wins, regardless of what they're on, that's bike not drugs!!!

It wouldn't take a bike mechanic from 1918 long to get up to speed on 2018 cycle technology and be able to fix it. They haven't changed much.

[smallspeed]

friend of mine (active cyclocross racer) had a carbon frame snap in half last year - he got hit by a car and the photo of the two halves in the boot of his car was quite funny! until we all realised his spine had suffered the same fate
6 months later and he's back racing again

[Mick Cliff]

Crushed - the news of Sir Brad and 'drugs' appalls and saddens me and I hope he can clear his name.

Froomy next?

Even worse - that sanctimonious tw4t Piers Morgan spouting off when he's no stranger to bending the rules himself!
Quote: "In 2011 Morgan denied having ever hacked a phone or "to my knowledge published any story obtained from the hacking of a phone". In 2012 he was heavily criticised in the findings of the Leveson Inquiry, when the chair Brian Leveson stated that comments made in Morgan's testimony about phone hacking were "utterly unpersuasive" and "clearly prove ... that he was aware that it was taking place in the press as a whole and that he was sufficiently unembarrassed by what was criminal behaviour that he was prepared to joke about it" Unquote (Wikipedia)

[hot66]

was not a surprise about Wiggins .. I'm not a fan of his anyway

Froome ... mixed opinions but on balance I reckon he tries to play it straight

[Mick Cliff]

Common denominator = Brailsford

[neilbardsley]

I'm struggling to find a link or new article on this that actually has some facts now questions. I don't put it beyond Sky but apart from a parcel that wasn't accounted for what else has been found?

[KS]

As soon as you get into the world of 'no rules were broken, but it wasn't very ethical', the argument falls apart. If no rules are broken, end of story. Change the rules now, if you like, but you can't change them retrospectively.

[hot66]

yep , ethics are basically opinions ,,, laws are laws ( rules are rules )

Agree with Keith .. still don't like wiggins though . Problem is , for the average person on the street , all this headline stuff makes them think they all cheated. Pushing boundaries within the 'rules' is what every motorsport team has done since day1