Rolls-Royce pre-eminent Aero Engine Maker and their cars.

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Seven
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Re: Rolls-Royce pre-eminent Aero Engine Maker and their cars

Post by Seven »

Darren C wrote:Wow Marcus !

Heres a picture of my very rare 1935 Derby 3 1/2 litre Bentley Sports Saloon with ARTHUR Mulliner original body (one of 2 known to exist).

Image

What would you like to know?

Thats fantastic Darren and great to see a photograph!......I'm a bit embarrassed to say but I dont really know anything about it so any information you can give would be be very gratefully received.

Its very interesting that your car is a Bentley as it was always said that my wife's great aunt would only ever drive in a Bentley rather than a Rolls! Did the Arthur Mulliner coachworks tend to produce more Bentley than Rolls bodies?

Marcus
1968 Porsche 912
1960 Vespa 150
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Re: Rolls-Royce pre-eminent Aero Engine Maker and their cars

Post by Darren C »

Marcus, I’m currently in the office working on the next generation R-R, Arthur Mulliner is about the oldest Coachbuilder in UK, starting with Horse drawn carriages including a contract for the first Royal Mail Carriages so while I’m on tea break here’s some links you and others will find interesting:
http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtop ... r+Mulliner

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtop ... r+Mulliner

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtop ... ner#p63867

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtop ... r+Mulliner

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtop ... ner#p65937

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtop ... ner#p50417

To answer your question, they made far, far more R-R than Bentley bodies.

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtop ... ner#p49368

My cars here in a colour pic and a 1972 private ad for £785!
I'll PM you tonight with details of how you can lay your hands on all the R-R Factory records :)
Last edited by Darren C on Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rolls-Royce pre-eminent Aero Engine Maker and their cars

Post by Seven »

Wonderful thank you very much Darren!
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Re: Rolls-Royce pre-eminent Aero Engine Maker and their cars

Post by Darren C »

You're welcome Marcus.

Continuing the Gurney Nutting story.........

Rolls-Royce continued to develop their chassis during the 1930’s and in 1938 introduced the 25/30 Wraith. Not to be confused with the Silver Wraith, which was post war. The 25/30 Wraith had a new front suspension and the cylinder head of the 4 ¼ litre engine (as used in the Derby Bentley & 25/30) was amended to crossflow.
As with launches of all new chassis, the coachbuilders were keen to clothe them in new bodies.

I wanted to ask John about this, and like always, he surprised me!

“The Wraith marked the end of the good times” John began.
“The war put a stop to everything we did. We’d barely finished the first chassis and war was declared. A few cars got finished off and delivered in 40, but that was it. The Ministry stopped us building cars and issued contracts for boats. They provided the plans and we just had to get on and build what they wanted. There wasn’t any room for me as a luxury car designer” he said.
“So how many 25/30 Wraiths did you complete?” I tentatively asked (knowing this wasn’t a good time for John)
“Oh, I can’t remember exactly, There were some new designs that got scrapped and a dozen or so cars got eventually built along with some customers Phantoms that we’d already started when war was declared. No one knew what the outcome was going to be, but there was one special car built you know. One that I’m sure you’ll like” John said with that cheeky twinkle in his eye again.
From what John told me, it was a car as close to the Two Seater Fixed Head Coupe with the Dickey as the customer would allow. (The “missing link” car in the evolution of Razor edge).

The design that never got built?

John hadn’t got a drawing of the Wraith, but he described it to me and said they fitted “coachlights” as a nod to the Parisian taxi inspiration.
This bugged me for many years, and it wasn’t until after John’s death that I actually found the car.

Image

Built on a 1939 Wraith Chassis, it has the razors edge rear window and panel lines, with the basket weave flanks of the (before its time)1935 razor edge design and the square coachlights.
With the World at War, this was Blatchley’s swan song at Gurney Nutting. Like fitting the final piece in a jigsaw.
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Re: Rolls-Royce pre-eminent Aero Engine Maker and their cars

Post by Darren C »

I wanted to ask John about the war. I’d heard and read that he’d had a sickly childhood and was diagnosed with a heart murmur preventing him from joining the services. As an ex-serviceman myself from a family of servicemen I was curious how John felt about this. He’d been taken on by Rolls-Royce and had moved out of Chelsea and Gurney Nutting up to Nottinghamshire (near where he’d attended boarding school in Chesterfield) to relative safety and the Aero division as a draftsman.
I knew it was not going to be an easy topic to broach…..

“What happened during the war?” I asked after we’d sat down with a cup of tea one afternoon.
“It was the worst time of my life. I wished my time away” was his initial reply.
“But you designed the cowlings and exhausts for the Supermarine Spifire, surely this was worthwhile?
“Hated it”……...there was an uncomfortable silence for a while.
“I was always getting in trouble for doodling” he said.
“Doodling?”
“Drawing caricatures of my workmates, my boss and all that kind of thing. The work was so tedious and boring. I knew it was important but it wasn’t for me. I knew that the Car Division had reformed and they were secretly working on a new car using Park Ward. I kicked up a lot of fuss towards the end but they wouldn’t let me go”

As I mentioned earlier, Rolls-Royce had purchased the coachbuilder Park Ward in 1939, but few know that in 1922 there had been a secret project between R-R and PW to develop a “standard” body for the 20HP chassis. This had been one of many attempts pre-war for Rolls-Royce to produce a complete motorcar and not just a chassis. The project failed but R-R kept a relationship with Park Ward and started buying shares in 1933. By 1936 Park Ward had started to develop a pressed steel body construction with the aid of R-R. The eventual purchase of Park Ward by R-R followed in 1939 at the outbreak of WWII.

Under cloak and dagger a small secret team had continued to develop the Wraith Chassis and a new Park Ward pressed steel body design.

With John’s connections he knew it was going on, but was stuck in a drawing office in Hucknall being asked to draw up engine covers for aircraft.

I can understand entirely how frustrating this must have been for such a creative, artistic man. On average his designs at Gurney Nutting had been realised as cars sometimes within just 6 weeks. Going back to my previous posts, it was not just R-R & Bentley chassis arriving and leaving, there were all sorts of marques coming through the door. It’s not hard to understand why he hated and was distant with the work at Hucknall.

Please take a look at the picture galleries in the links below of the just the R-R & Bentley cars that came out of Gurney Nutting during Blatchleys time there. (Remember these are but a small few that have survived and been photographed)

1929 to 1936 the 20/25

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtop ... ey+nutting

1933 to 1939 Derby Bentley

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtop ... ey+nutting

1936 to 1938 the 25/30

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtop ... ey+nutting

1929 to 1936 the Phantom II

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtop ... ey+nutting

1936-1939 the Phantom III

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtop ... ey+nutting


Sitting at a dimly lit drawing desk on a grey day, rain running down the window pane, little or no ability to express your creativity after penning such beautiful motorcars must have been hell.

“I’d rather not dwell on that time” John said.
It was the last we talked of the war. I changed the subject.

“Tell me about when you finally got to the Car Division and found out what they’d been up to”
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Re: Rolls-Royce pre-eminent Aero Engine Maker and their cars

Post by keith fellowes »

Darren,
Very interesting how car designers follow each other, to a degree. The image of the green Derby Bentley looked like a Jaguar that my grand-parents had in the 40s, seen in photos you understand!!

The Triumph Renown I mentioned earlier clearly had design cues from John's work. My dad was very proud that he could call it a 'razor edge'. Probably thought it a poor mans Rolls, though wasn't that the Armstrong Siddeley?
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Re: Rolls-Royce pre-eminent Aero Engine Maker and their cars

Post by Darren C »

Thanks Keith, there are unconfirmed rumours that A.F.McNeil did some work for Arthur Mulliner before settling at James Young after leaving Gurney Nutting. (I'm trying to confirm this)
That in combination with each coachbuilder copying each others fashionable designs or shapes that were trending and selling, is why they look similar.
If you read back a few posts, John Blatchley designed the SS Saloon based upon a Gurney Nutting, removing his trade mark trouser creases in the wings and slightly simplifying the shape. That’s why your Grandparents Jaguar looked so similar. The Triumph was another Blatchley influenced design, even their roadster bared resemblances to Blatchleys Lagondas, and why not? As a new car company you’d want your cars inspired by your heroes.

If any one is interested. ITV2 this afternoon 4:45pm Nanny McPhee and the Big Bang.

After the 12 year restoration on my Gurney Nutting Sedanca de Ville, I was asked to help make that film. You can see my car in action over the first ½ hr and in a scene later in the movie. This took a whole 6 months off work to make and if any of your kids have the DVD, there’s more of the car in the special features and behind the scenes feature.
Working with Emma Thompson who wrote the screenplay and was on set every day was a real privilege. She is the most kind, generous and endearing lady I have ever met.
There is so much consideration in every detail put into making the film, such as wanting to pay homage to Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, by filming action shots of me & my Rolls-Royce in the same locations as Chitty was filmed. The same roads, the exact spots and same villages dressed to look like they were in Chitty. All this effort and the general Movie goer would just see a car drive down a random road, such was the devotion put into this film. It’s me in costume doubling for Daniel Mays in the driving scenes.
Please check it out if you are able, they made my Sedanca de Ville look superb!
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Re: Rolls-Royce pre-eminent Aero Engine Maker and their cars

Post by Darren C »

“Tell me about when you finally got to the Car Division and found out what they’d been up to”

“It was a pitiful disaster” John replied. “I told them so, which they didn’t like at all. The shape had no design or direction and looked so old and cumbersome. They even had exposed door hinges, which shouldn’t be seen on a Rolls-Royce and something we’d concealed at Gurney Nutting 15 years earlier. The new car just looked cheap and had no finesse. The interior was no better.” He said shaking his head.

“I wanted to completely re-style it, but was told that couldn’t happen as they were too far into producing the panel presses. I’m sure this wasn’t fully the truth, but more show of face for their engineering team. Fortunately I did get to redesign the door hinges to conceal them, the boot, whole interior, seats and dashboard. It wasn’t an elegant car and they knew it”

Now I will give another DDK exclusive

"That's why it wasn't available as a Rolls-Royce, only a Bentley. They were ashamed of it!"


The car went into production and became the Bentley Mk VI Standard Steel Saloon based on the evolution of the shortened pre-war 25/30 Wraith chassis. Along side the Bentley Mk VI, Rolls-Royce produced the Silver Wraith chassis with a longer wheel base, but this at first did not have a factory body. Only the Bentley came complete, the Silver Wraith still traditionally went off to a coachbuilder. Customers could also buy just a Bentley MkVI chassis if they so desired.
“I was not happy with the MkVI design at all” John continued “and did many drawings of the car it should have been”.

He got up to rummage in the drawers again…

“Bloody Hell John!” I was aghast at what John showed me next..

“When did you design this? I asked.

“46 I believe”

“Forty-six?”

“Yes, it was what I wanted the Mk VI to look like, but they were having none of it, everyone in the business agreed with me” John replied referring to A.F.McNeil (who he remained good friends with and other car stylists John knew)

“But John, that looks REALLY, REALLY like the first Facel Bentley’s, but they were later”

“Yes it does” he said with that twinkle in his eye that told me more than he would ever say.

Now I’m going to make another big claim here on DDK….
To explain a little history, after the War some of Europe’s major car exhibitions were held to get manufacturing of motor cars back on track, but certain rulings would NOT allow manufacturers from Enemy Countries to exhibit their wares.
Italy was one such country. This prevented Alfa, Lancia and others including Coachbuilders such as Pininfarina to exhibit.
Now, John knew a lot of these companies and their respective fellow designers and stylists including the French Jean Daninos, who he told me he respected.

John was leading a trail of breadcrumbs for me again. "Jean asked me personally to style him a coupe" :shock:

In 1948 Daninos of Facel, displayed a Bentley Mk VI with a Pininfarina body at the Paris Salon (from which they were otherwise banned) which was a perfect copy of the drawing now laying on the table before me, drawn 2 years earlier titled “Mk VI Coupe”.

http://www.bentleyspotting.com/2011/05/ ... pe-by.html

“When Jean displayed the car he got immediate orders and the attention of Crewe” John said.

Facel got orders for 17 cars but Crewe, although impressed by the design would not sell him any further chassis unless he altered the front grille. Pininfarina had changed Blatchleys design and fitted a much wider and shorter grille. Bentley at Crewe thought that this did not fit the Bentley brand and wanted it changing.
Blatchley was called and worked with Daninos to create an opening in the front of the car that when filled with the vertical Bentley radiator louvers fitted the recognised conventional corporate face of Bentley, but when the louvers were not present looked individual. John incorporated stylised horn grilles either side in a homage to the wider Pininfarina grille.

The face of a Facel was born.

Daninos was pleased with Blatchleys design and the factory at Crewe gave it their seal of approval and supplied Facel with Bentley chassis as agreed.

Blatchley had a way of getting his designs built and influencing the world without recognition. As I was to find out, sharing his company, this was not to be the last time it happened.
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Re: Rolls-Royce pre-eminent Aero Engine Maker and their cars

Post by silver911 »

Wow... just wow.... amazing stories Darren.
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Re: Rolls-Royce pre-eminent Aero Engine Maker and their cars

Post by Darren C »

So to carry-on from last night’s ramblings……

Rolls-Royce & Bentley Motors Crewe were treading water or so it seemed to the world with not offering a “complete” in house built Rolls-Royce. Blatchley was assigned as head stylist along with his now ever growing team of budding designers to resolve the problem.

R & D is a very expensive exercise and R-R had just invested in the pressed Steel Body for the Bentley Mk VI and they were going to get their monies worth from the design. Since the factory at Crewe was still young and the Bentley Bodies came in from Pressed Steel Limited of Cowley, they had no real need for a Coachbuilding department on site.
Therefore the most economical way of building and evaluating the designs of Blatchley and his team was to sub them out to existing coachbuilders to build.

With Johns Gurney Nutting background, he was the ideal man for the job.

“I had all the contacts you see…..and knew a lot of the fellas” John began telling me.

So what happened next….after the Mk VI was signed off….and the episode with Daninos.

“Evernden set up a meeting with Abbotts of Farnham”

Evernden was Blatchley’s boss. A very experienced engineer who headed the Research and Development Department, not a stylist or designer, but an overall mechanical engineer who John told me was more interested in nuts & bolts than how things looked!
John took a whole series of drawings out of one of his drawers and again after a shuffling around which seemed to last a good while, began his story.

“I think these were around 46” handing me drawings which resembled the Coupe that Facel got Pininfarina to build. “It was sort of a test for them; you know; so that Royce’s could see if they were up to the job”

In front of me were several designs, coupe, saloon & dropheads. Each one had differing ideas and styling subtleties. (But make a note of the continued line of the front wing across the door to meet the rear wheel arch in each car)

“A few got built, and looked the part” John commented as I sat studying each picture.

For your benefit here’s a couple of photos of the Abbott built prototypes.
First one was called Project Farnham (as it was known at Crewe, based on Abbotts geographical location)

Image

The second is Project Estoril

Image

“I wanted to kill off the MkVI in favour of a more modern design…. But there was so much resistance from the finance people” John said.

As I handed the drawings back……

“JESUS, what’s that!”



My eye caught a glimpse of a beautiful painting in the drawer.

“Please tell me about this”

“Oh” John replied. “I’m not really supposed to talk about this one” There was a long pause….

”But now you’ve seen it I suppose it won’t matter any more”


What I’m going to share with you here on DDK is very special and VERY controversial.

It’s what I’m going to call The Chicken or the Hairy Egg Story.

“Well” said John, “It all started back in 1946 in an early meeting with Abbotts. They knew my work and had a private client who wanted a special body built on a Delahaye chassis and asked if I would design it for them”.

“Wow John. What, without R-R”

“Yes, a private commission”

“And this is the drawing?”

“Yes, I didn’t realise it was in here amongst this lot”

“So did they build it?”

“Oh yes, but as it was a very private customer it got hidden away in their collection I believe. I only saw it once. On another visit. Almost finished and it looked all I’d imagined” John replied.

Now. I don’t have a copy of the drawing, to show you as I understand its still with Johns son.
However after searching for quite a few years, the car finally came out of hiding and back into the public domain. Finished in 1946 by Abbott, it is one of the most beautiful Delahaye roadsters ever built and shows the evolution of Johns elegant and revolutionary Duesenburg speedster design pre-war.

Image

This is where the plot thickens as they say…..Crewe knew nothing of Blatchley’s part in this or of the car.

John pulled out another design and placed it on the table. I nearly spat my tea out.

“Called this one Blizzard” John announced.

Image

“They asked me to look at designing a drophead Bentley to fit the Mk VI Chassis, so, you know, I went through the motions and we gave them this” He said with that twinkle in his eye again.

“You are kidding me!” I said. “And they bought it?”

“Yes of course, we even got Abbotts to build us a prototype”

“Now you’re, having me on” I said.

“No, I have some pictures somewhere” was the reply and sure enough after a good few minutes of me aghast yet again (thinking the obvious that I hope you're thinking while looking at these pictures) John handed me some old photos.

Image

“When was this” I asked.

“Early 48” John replied.

Now I was about to ask the question I hope your waiting for…..

“But this looks like a Jaguar XK?”

“It looks like a lot of things” was John’s reply.

Forever humble, he was not about to start taking credit for his design, he just shrugged and said “When David Brown from Aston Martin found we were using Abbotts, it all got a little complicated”

“Complicated, complicated….from what I can see, you’ve just designed the Jaguar XK and now your saying David Brown is involved!”

“Yes. Frank Feeley worked at Newns, he got asked to design a body for Malcolm Campbells Rapier. Well old Malcolm put him in touch with McNeil and we all got to know each other. Frank moved to Lagonda as designer and we met again when I bodied a few Lagondas. We always kept in touch. In 47 David Brown bought Lagonda and Frank carried on with them. Aston Martin were looking to build a few prototype bodies and we suggested Abbotts. Abbotts with my consent built Astons a Prototype roadster, DB2 I think”

Well, to say I thought I was going to hear the Jaguar story and this gets thrown in the mix!

Image

“So are you saying that you designed the first DB2’s John?”

“Oh, no, they just got my approval” was John’s sincere reply.

“Come on, it’s your drawing here from 46, for the Delahaye….all of it!” I protested.

“And this is 46, that seals it, the first Jaguar XK’s were later 1950’s I’m sure”

At the time I didn’t know the exact date for the XK, but the whole thing seemed very fishy to me and I researched it over the following days. Sure enough the first prototype Jaguar XK’s did not exist until late 48 thru 1950, all the history of it being a stunning William Lyons Design and all!

The next time we met I was to ask John, how his design got into the hands of William Lyons.
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Re: Rolls-Royce pre-eminent Aero Engine Maker and their cars

Post by Berny »

The thick plottens!
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Re: Rolls-Royce pre-eminent Aero Engine Maker and their cars

Post by Ashley James »

We're these shapes simply an evolution of the style originated by Figoni and Falaschi, first on the Talbot Lago and then on Delages and Delahayes.

Sir William Lyons was influenced by a more streamlined BMW 328 that I believe would have gone to AFN if the war hadn't intervened. They may have collected it afterward.

Image

The Pininfarina idea of moving the body outside the wheels appeared first on the Lancia Aurelia B20 GT, which was probably the most advanced car of the day.

They and Alfa were making chassisless cars by then and so were able to give MKVI performance with 2 Litre engines. They were considerably lighter and had a far small frontal area.

Frank Feeley was the Lagonda Blatchley equivalent and I believe he was responsible for all theirs and Astons until the DB4. His V12 was arguably the best looking pre war Brit design. We were quite conservative compared to the continentals. The racing Astons of the fifties that Frank Feeley did were as beautiful as any Italian and more.

Here's one of Feeley's designs from 1935/6

Image

WO BENTLEY apparently used to keep winding Feeley up (he was working for Lagonda by then) by telling him that he was designing cars for his Lordship and not his Lordship's tailor
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Re: Rolls-Royce pre-eminent Aero Engine Maker and their cars

Post by Darren C »

Thanks Ashley,

Figoni and Falaschi were “kings” of the Pontoon Wing design, but although a definite influence on world car design, the wings were separate from the tub of the car (in design terms) ie, the pontoon wing did not form part of the doors of the car.
I’ll come onto the 328 later this evening when I’m home from work and continue my timeline story.
The Lancia Aurelia B20 GT (a different design all together so I’m not sure why you threw this into the pot) was much later and I have an interesting story about that to share also.
Thanks for sharing the Feeley info, I don’t think his designs were as “elegant” as others, more utilitarian in a purposeful way. Beautiful in their own right, but not knock out stylish or elegant. The 35/36 car has a “lightweight” appearance for speed and the roof is not at all attractive.

Thanks for posting, it's good to have some debate rather than folks just accepting what I post.
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Re: Rolls-Royce pre-eminent Aero Engine Maker and their cars

Post by Darren C »

Thanks for posting the BMW 328 picture Ashley.

History is a strange thing, over time it evolves and changes. There is no doubt that you can plainly see the lines of the Jaguar XK in the 39/40 Mille Miglia 328, and too may folk have said Lyons was influenced by it.

My tale is how Lyons ended up selecting that design for his new roadster out of infinite possibilities he could have chosen. But before I offer an interesting twist to this story and thanks to your input, I will offer an amazing twist to the 328 Mille Miglia, that I am not sure has ever been told.

It is well documented that the 328 Mille Miglia was the work of their “artistic” Chief Stylist Wilhelm Meyerhuber.

But was it?

Meyerhuber came from a family of accomplished artists and started his designer's career at Opel in the early 1930’s and was sent to the US to work with General Motors (who were buying shares in Opel). He left to join BMW in 1937 and by 1938 became the head of the newly created BMW design department.

Like all history, this is where things become intertwined.

Let’s jump back a few years. As I have touched upon previously there were many, many Coachbuilders around in the pre-war era.
One such Coachbuilder was Karosserie Erdmann & Rossi, who built bodies for R-R & Bentley, Horch & Mercedes
They were the exclusive distributor for Rolls-Royce & Bentley Motors in Germany.

A bonus picture here for Gary71. :wink: The 1938 Berlin Motorshow showing the Erdmann & Rossi stand with a German built Bentley (black drophead behind mat on the walkway facing the white BMW) shadowed by the Swastika

Image

To gain this exclusivity Erdmann & Rossi regularly visited England and worked closely with R-R & Bentley. During which time their chief designers Friedrich Peters and his brother Richard Peters were inspired by the design here, especially by J. Gurney Nutting above all others. The Peters Brothers became good friends of Gurney Nutting, McNeil and Blatchley.

So much so that Gurney Nutting struck an agreement for Erdmann & Rossi to build their body designs under licence in Germany. Overnight the elegant designs of Blatchley were being created in Germany.

Examples link here.

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtop ... mann+rossi

Not only the stylised drawings were handed over, but the full size plans so that the designs could be built to the exacting Gurney Nutting dimensions!

With a good working partnership with Mc Neil & Blatchley and watchful eye of R-R & Bentley, the Peters brothers rolled out many R-R & Bentley bodies and Germany sales grew. However it wasn’t long before the Peters brothers admiration for Gurney Nutting elegance and style caused it to influence the in house Erdmann & Rossi bodies being fitted to other Marques.

As I’ve said earlier, with everyone influencing each other, it is hard to see clearly who did what, where and when.
Often coachbuilders would copy ideas from each-others concept drawings, even before that car became reality. The waters here are very muddy. I can see Blatchley in Horch & Mercedes and the Peters brothers are that link.

Ok, so where is this leading?

Well John told me that Gurney Nutting worked with Erdmann & Rossi, handing over not only standard catalogue designs (as seen in the link above) but also a few “specials” that had not made it to fruition. It was again an attempt by John to enable his ideas to be realised. Several of Blatchley’s designs bear striking resemblances to the early evolution designs that he would use again in the Bentley Blizzard.

A few of these special Gurney Nutting designs were built by Erdmann & Rossi on other marque chassis, some identical some re-worked by Friedrich and Richard and Blatchley became detached forever from their origins.

Many posts back, I told you that the story of Blatchley is of being; in my opinion the most influential car designer of the 20th Century that not many people have heard of, I hope you are beginning to understand the depths of this story.

So, back on track.

In 1935 Erdmann & Rossi built a Blatchley special called, from what I can remember the “Streamline” The front wings protruded past the radiator in comparison to the 328, but the rest is striking similar in profile.

Image

This is where it gets even more interesting.

It was on an Opel chassis.

Wilhelm Meyerhuber worked for Opel, but he was in the US around this time. Erdmann & Rossi secured a big contract from Opel to body Opel chassis on the back of the Streamline.

There is no doubt that as an Artistic Designer working for Opel and on seeing the Steamline in 1935, it greatly influenced Wilhelm Meyerhuber when he came to BMW and the 328 Mille Miglia job, keen to please his new employer. You must also consider that the earlier 328 Mille Miglia shape on which Meyerhuber started was slab sided which restrained and confined what could be done.

What is interesting is that Meyerhuber didn’t seem to leave any lasting legacy at Opel and at BMW he seems to be only remembered for the 328 Mille Miglia. I find it hard to understand that if the man was capable of creating such a beautiful design, he would have been a prolific contributor to automotive design? My personal opinion is that he was an artist who knew exactly how to add beauty by replicating what he saw, not creating it. The automotive world is a better place for his work, even if it’s a one hit wonder.

These things are never straightforward, I do not believe we’ll ever know for sure. You can talk to the people involved and still never be certain. The evidence is tantalising which is what really interests me.

One thing is for certain, William Lyons had very little hand in the body shape of the XK120 for which he is given so much credit.
That’s why I titled this part of my story “Chicken or Hairy Egg”
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Darren C
DDK rules my life!
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Re: Rolls-Royce pre-eminent Aero Engine Maker and their cars

Post by Darren C »

To continue…….The next time we met I was to ask John, how his design got into the hands of William Lyons.

“I wanted to finish off the Bentley MkVI” John said.
“Finish off?”
“Yes; you know, end production in favour of a newer design, but the powers that be were having none of it. We had some marvellous ideas but they were all a bit to advanced for them to be taken seriously, they wanted us to be a little more conservative. The Blizzard was one of only a couple of our designs that seemed to work for them but they were dragging their heels on approval. I was sure it wasn’t going to come to fruition and prototypes orders were placed too late.” John shook his head.
“So what is the story behind Jaguar?” I asked pushing my luck.
“There is no story really” John replied straight away and then paused.
“We gave them the saloon” John was referring to the Gurney Nutting Design they provided for the SS chassis prewar, which is unquestionably a Bentley clone even with the removal of some swage lines to simplify it. I cannot believe how clearly Gurney Nutting it is...even having their trade mark chrome trim strip along the side.

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“They’d used this for a good while and wanted to update it. Rolls-Royce didn’t see them as a threat and were happy to let them have my 10 year old designs”
“So what are you saying John?”
“Nothing really, they just updated their cars 10 years behind us”
As shrewd as ever, it was not easy getting information out of him about this, so I tried a different tack.
“I suppose your talking about the Jaguar MkV that followed the saloon?”
“Yes it was updated in the style of our 10 year old designs. The trouble is….I always thought it looked more elegant for it than our own offerings” was the reply.

So the 1948 Jaguar MkV here, launched with the XK120….

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……..got the Blatchley update from 1936!

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Curvaceous roof lines, door shapes, window shapes, flowing boot and even wheel arch spats!

“It was 47 I think and we’d just finished a minor restyle on the Bentley MkVI. They called it the Mk VII, but it really was just a few minor changes” John said despondently.

The MkVII became known as the Rolls-Royce Silver Dawn launched in 1949 and a couple of years later the Bentley R-Type.

The differences from the MkVI were basically a bigger boot and interior changes with the Silver Dawn getting a slightly restyled bonnet & scuttle (not that you’d really guess) There were a good few mechanical improvements, engine had increased in the last year of the MkVI to 4 ½ litres from 4 ¼ and the Bentley was now offered with an autobox.
Since my story here is more inclined to the cosmetics and styling of the car, I’ll leave the mechanicals for another day.

This would be the first Rolls-Royce to be entirely built in house using a pressed steel body.

Silver Dawn

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Bentley R-Type

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While all this was going on at the end of the 1940’s Blatchley and his team were already working on the replacement for the R-Type and the Silver Dawn. The lack of decision making on the part of the Rolls-Royce management, in finding a Rolls-Royce bodied car to manufacture (as opposed to selling chassis) alongside the Bentley MkVI, had frustrated John intensely.
In his mind there was nothing wrong with the designs and in his words “They just needed to get on with it”.
Coming from a background at Gurney Nutting where whole cars could be realised in a matter of weeks, the 5 year period to launch Silver Dawn, and it just be a reworked Bentley MkVI must have been completely alien to John.

“They were dragging their heels on approval” John had said about Blizzard back in late 1947. “I was sure it wasn’t going to come to fruition” he said.

“I’m glad Jaguar built it” he told me in passing.

“It really put the wind up Rolls-Royce. They had lost the opportunity when they saw how the public reacted to the XK120…..Approval came too late for us to mass produce the design, so only a few coachbuilt cars got built in the end which was a shame really, as it was a pretty car” John said.

I have to agree with him, his 52 Dawn is beautiful in comparison to its saloon sister.

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This is as much as I will say about the possibility of “some despondent soul” slipping the early design ideas for Blizzard to Jaguar while possibly styling their MkV.

In another twist R-R were about to have their designs copied and touted back to them.....
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