Cost of restoring

[stretch]

Absolutely Mark. My figure is based on a partial DIY job. I know that several cars on here have had, 80-100k spent on them.
One of my favourite pictures strikes again..




[Jonnydaz53]

so dave out of interest how many worms are there in those cans !!

[stretch]

Jonny, i will let you know when i finish counting...!

[murph2309]

My experience of a resto was like this....

1) Strip-down (If you've got a garage and some mates, you can do this yourself - if not 100 hours-ish professionally)

2) Cleaning - body about GBP 1k (blasting) bits & pieces, powder-coating, chroming, plating say another 1.5 - 2

3) Metalwork - totally depends on what you have - expect GBP 40-50 p/h but I'd think anywhere from 50-400+ hours depending on the state underneath - Mine was around 300ish - but you just don't know til you get in there. Ditto on panels, but it's quite easy to spend 5k or so if you're buying wings and floors and tank supports etc

4) Paint - a good job will take 200+ hours commercially and more likely in the gbp 60 p/h range - most of which is prepping the body, smoothing, filling, sanding etc. You should be looking for good seam-sealing and new sound-deadening in there too.

5) Engine / Gearbox - totally depends on what you want and what's needed, but a really basic strip, check and no major replacements will cost you about 5-6 for the engine (with basics like new valves, guides, springs & bearings a bit of crank balancing, oil bypass mod and maybe a lightened flywheel) and perhaps 2-3 for gearbox (bit out of date on that one tbh). Then 'while you're in there' you'd probably want to be looking at new clutch, exhaust box and maybe some SSI heat-exchangers + hosing & flapper boxes re-firb, figure another 2-2.5 there

6) Steering, wheels, suspension & brakes: Wheel re-firb can be around 2k I think (for 5). New bearings & bushes in your banana arms, a-arms, arb, drop links, powder-coating them all and the torsion-bars. A steering column refirb, possibly pedal box. New discs, pads, caliper refirb, new brake lines, poss a master-cylinder. Steering rack may need work and you may want to do the turbo tie-rod update on your steering arms - all in, from memory, that would be about 3k

7) Fuel / Oil: I had to get a new petrol tank & a new oil tank, about 2k in total. I also put new oil & petrol lines all the way through the car, including the engine bay and through the tunnel - they are surprisingly expensive so prob about another 1,500 there

8 ) Electrics: My loom didn't need a re-wrap, but some do, part of mine needed re-working as it had melted around the torsion-bar area. You may need new units for the indicators, or you can re-firb, new lenses (NOS are stupid expensive - mine were $200 each.... and that was 3 years ago). You may find the need to refirb wiper motors, fresh-air fans and various relays.

9) Re-assembly (minus interior): Something you can do yourself if you want, I did most of it myself & with mates to get it back to a rolling shell with all the above fitted. If not, I think someone said it would be 200ish hours commercially - but stand to be corrected

10) Interior - again, totally depends on what you have, but commonly you'd see headliner, seat re-trim or replace, carpets, steering-wheel re-wrap, door cards. I reckon mine cost me in the region of 3k, but I had my seats recovered & a new (old) dashboard. You might want your dials re-firbed (prob about gbp 100 each)

11) Finishing / snagging: Seals (really expensive! Easy to spend 1.5 on new rubber - especially if you have a targa), exterior trim & bumper-trim, door gapping, checking for rattles & squeaks. One of the best things I spent money on was a suspension set-up - totally transformed the car (Centre-Gravity for me). Put aside another 2k for this part of the process. Feels totally painful at this stage cos you thought all the spend was done, but it's well worth-it to have it just right.

12) Contingency.....washers, nuts, bolts, O-rings, tiny bits of plastic that cost a fortune, relays, bulbs, petrol-tank mounts, hand-brake gaiters, beer & food for your mates, transport of the car around to the various places stuff will have done (diesel, trailer-hire....). If you don't spend 2-3k in this area I'd be surprised....

So I still haven't added all of this up on mine - it's too scary to contemplate. I just did it over a 4 year period, engine & gearbox first, then drove it for a bit then took it apart Jan 2012 and had it on the road again for CLM 14. And that felt like a push.

I hope this helps and doesn't frighten you off. The project is all-consuming and really enjoyable - I took a route that was part-home build, but mostly professional work - my role was take-apart & put back to rolling-shell, but a huge amount of time looking after all the logistics, sourcing and buying stuff and working with each of the people / teams to help make sure I (we) ended up with what I wanted. And I was looking for a 'return to stock' for mine. I don't have any experience in a hot-rod build, but there are some great ones in the resto threads here too.

But ultimately, if it's working and safe, get out and use it - don't think you need a show-queen to have fun or that anyone will 'judge' your car. I missed going to CLM in 2010 because I was a bit embarrassed about the state of the car and I though it wasn't fit to be seen in public. What a stupid ar5e I was - I really regret not going to that.

Get the MOT & get out and drive it.

[dogbower]

Thanks for the replies.
Looks like I will be putting it back in the garage then
So 3 options
Rob a bank
Leave it alone until I have time for DIY, around 2 years
Have a poke at the sills over winter and see how bad it is.

Sell it and buy a nice 964 ... your wallet will thank you

Really James, whats a rusty 911 worth then?

Stuart.

[Gary71]

Depends on what you want, there is a big difference between doing what is required to get the car back on the road and 'restoring' it.

If you want to genuinely restore it back to a new car then the numbers above are correct. However it is entirely possible to do what is required and quietly ignore the rest until such time as funds/motivation allow.

Unfortunately due to the perceived value of our cars anything other than a full nut and bolt, replated, rechromed, retrimmed bare shell rebuild can feel like a bodge these days.

There are plenty of us on here who do 'what is required' and spend more time enjoying the car on the road as a result

My son can pay for the full rebuild in 15 years time

[911hillclimber]

I agree with Gary.
My car is in the 'hotrod' class and always will be, it will never be worth much and even if you go through the whole process above (great detail) then it wont be worth much more.

Remember to add the cost of the car itself...

[slipslide]

The problem is that once you start taking things apart things just take on a life of there own. Some through neccesity and some through the old "while im here i might as well". If you give it some paint then the chrome looks rough against the new paint, redo the chrome and some rubbers and trim will need replacing, it just spirals. My 912 started as a quick lick of paint, get it on the road enjoy it and ended up as all of the above and more.
If you would like to do a full resto on it at some point but now is not the time then i would do the bare minimum to keep it on the road (and safe) enjoy the car, primered panels are better than rusty panels

[Gary71]

The problem is that once you start taking things apart things just take on a life of there own. Some through neccesity and some through the old "while im here i might as well".

Agreed, it's very hard to put the old bits back on against fresh paint! When my car was painted I put new door seals on but left perished 1/4 windows rubbers, scratched door surrounds, sill covers etc. You have to draw a line somewhere if budget and time are a consideration.

It did get a new headliner though as a glass out paint is hard to do without taking it out.

[gridgway]

So a rough sum of this lot comes to about £80k (at £50ph) which means that no one (in their right mind) will be doing this on anything but the most expensive of cars 2.7RSs basically. Perhaps a numbers matching S. Eeeek

My experience of a resto was like this....

1) Strip-down (If you've got a garage and some mates, you can do this yourself - if not 100 hours-ish professionally)

2) Cleaning - body about GBP 1k (blasting) bits & pieces, powder-coating, chroming, plating say another 1.5 - 2

3) Metalwork - totally depends on what you have - expect GBP 40-50 p/h but I'd think anywhere from 50-400+ hours depending on the state underneath - Mine was around 300ish - but you just don't know til you get in there. Ditto on panels, but it's quite easy to spend 5k or so if you're buying wings and floors and tank supports etc

4) Paint - a good job will take 200+ hours commercially and more likely in the gbp 60 p/h range - most of which is prepping the body, smoothing, filling, sanding etc. You should be looking for good seam-sealing and new sound-deadening in there too.

5) Engine / Gearbox - totally depends on what you want and what's needed, but a really basic strip, check and no major replacements will cost you about 5-6 for the engine (with basics like new valves, guides, springs & bearings a bit of crank balancing, oil bypass mod and maybe a lightened flywheel) and perhaps 2-3 for gearbox (bit out of date on that one tbh). Then 'while you're in there' you'd probably want to be looking at new clutch, exhaust box and maybe some SSI heat-exchangers + hosing & flapper boxes re-firb, figure another 2-2.5 there

6) Steering, wheels, suspension & brakes: Wheel re-firb can be around 2k I think (for 5). New bearings & bushes in your banana arms, a-arms, arb, drop links, powder-coating them all and the torsion-bars. A steering column refirb, possibly pedal box. New discs, pads, caliper refirb, new brake lines, poss a master-cylinder. Steering rack may need work and you may want to do the turbo tie-rod update on your steering arms - all in, from memory, that would be about 3k

7) Fuel / Oil: I had to get a new petrol tank & a new oil tank, about 2k in total. I also put new oil & petrol lines all the way through the car, including the engine bay and through the tunnel - they are surprisingly expensive so prob about another 1,500 there

8 ) Electrics: My loom didn't need a re-wrap, but some do, part of mine needed re-working as it had melted around the torsion-bar area. You may need new units for the indicators, or you can re-firb, new lenses (NOS are stupid expensive - mine were $200 each.... and that was 3 years ago). You may find the need to refirb wiper motors, fresh-air fans and various relays.

9) Re-assembly (minus interior): Something you can do yourself if you want, I did most of it myself & with mates to get it back to a rolling shell with all the above fitted. If not, I think someone said it would be 200ish hours commercially - but stand to be corrected

10) Interior - again, totally depends on what you have, but commonly you'd see headliner, seat re-trim or replace, carpets, steering-wheel re-wrap, door cards. I reckon mine cost me in the region of 3k, but I had my seats recovered & a new (old) dashboard. You might want your dials re-firbed (prob about gbp 100 each)

11) Finishing / snagging: Seals (really expensive! Easy to spend 1.5 on new rubber - especially if you have a targa), exterior trim & bumper-trim, door gapping, checking for rattles & squeaks. One of the best things I spent money on was a suspension set-up - totally transformed the car (Centre-Gravity for me). Put aside another 2k for this part of the process. Feels totally painful at this stage cos you thought all the spend was done, but it's well worth-it to have it just right.

12) Contingency.....washers, nuts, bolts, O-rings, tiny bits of plastic that cost a fortune, relays, bulbs, petrol-tank mounts, hand-brake gaiters, beer & food for your mates, transport of the car around to the various places stuff will have done (diesel, trailer-hire....). If you don't spend 2-3k in this area I'd be surprised....

So I still haven't added all of this up on mine - it's too scary to contemplate. I just did it over a 4 year period, engine & gearbox first, then drove it for a bit then took it apart Jan 2012 and had it on the road again for CLM 14. And that felt like a push.

I hope this helps and doesn't frighten you off. The project is all-consuming and really enjoyable - I took a route that was part-home build, but mostly professional work - my role was take-apart & put back to rolling-shell, but a huge amount of time looking after all the logistics, sourcing and buying stuff and working with each of the people / teams to help make sure I (we) ended up with what I wanted. And I was looking for a 'return to stock' for mine. I don't have any experience in a hot-rod build, but there are some great ones in the resto threads here too.

But ultimately, if it's working and safe, get out and use it - don't think you need a show-queen to have fun or that anyone will 'judge' your car. I missed going to CLM in 2010 because I was a bit embarrassed about the state of the car and I though it wasn't fit to be seen in public. What a stupid ar5e I was - I really regret not going to that.

Get the MOT & get out and drive it.

[hot66]

Sell it and buy a nice 964 ... your wallet will thank you

Really James, whats a rusty 911 worth then?

Stuart.

as always , depends on a huge a mount of things. Who knows, it could be £30K ? , but youd be better off patching & getting an MOT on it.

You wont' be restoring your car for financial reasons .... it will be because you want to & have an attachemnt to it. If in reality you can't stomach a restoration , it will be always be better to get out now .

Personally, I'd look at a rolling resto like Gary is refering too. Get the sills sorted and you'll have many years ahead of you driving it & having fun. I wouldn't dive into a full on resto. Some of most loved cars are those that people have aged with and repaired as theyve gone along

[hot66]

So a rough sum of this lot comes to about £80k (at £50ph) which means that no one (in their right mind) will be doing this on anything but the most expensive of cars 2.7RSs basically. Perhaps a numbers matching S. Eeeek

but Graham , no one really in the right mind would spunk loads of cash on racing cars either .. plenty do though , because as you know none of us are 'right minded'

[inaglasshouse]

So a rough sum of this lot comes to about £80k (at £50ph) which means that no one (in their right mind) will be doing this on anything but the most expensive of cars 2.7RSs basically. Perhaps a numbers matching S. Eeeek

Well... it's probably true that, to actually make money, the subject car has to be fairly high end.
But it's not a business! You might choose to spend 50-80K for the joy of the hobby and to have a near-perfect car to use and enjoy. I think that would still be in your right mind.
At least it will always be worth a considerable chunk of cash, and it will probably last your entire lifetime. Good value amortised over 40 years.

If you were really foolish you might buy a new 991, (or an M5 if you are stupid like me) and lose that much in depreciation within 3 years.

Cheers, Richard.

[coolaking]

4) Paint - a good job will take 200+ hours commercially

Does it take 200+ hours for paint on a 911

[Nige]

4) Paint - a good job will take 200+ hours commercially

Does it take 200+ hours for paint on a 911

5 weeks solid work at 40 hours per must be some paint job! A lot of Porsche tax going off here. OK fair amount of time in the pre and post prep maybe, but they're small cars by modern standards and can't be any more difficult to paint than an MGB, and I doubt they cost that much to repaint.

I like a bit of rough around the edges and maybe the odd but of rust here and there. It means I don't really care about how often and where I drive the thing which is what it's all about.