Long Distance Restoration 1970, 911T

[neilbardsley]

That is just horrid. At least you have lots of evidence of that it looked like. The Porsche Gods are really testing you

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[Nine One One]

Is there any water in the oil, which may prove they actually dropped it in the sea on loading it at the port of departure.(the container)
Either that or the ship went through some pretty horrific storms with the container letting water in, wherever it was loaded on the ship
So sad to see after all you have been through, and as others have said it is fixable, but not what you want after waiting 2 years to get it where it was when you picked it up in LA.
Best of luck with Hagerty - plenty of us on the forum have our cars insured with them so it would be nice to hope they will remedy all this

[davidif]

Any further updates on this?

[Midlifecrisis]

Thanks for asking, so heres a bit of an update.

The car was laid up at Chris Turners while we waited for Hagerty to send someone to take a look and report to the insurers. The guy they sent seemed very nice, he had never had to deal with anything like this before and this is his report;

RESULTANT DAMAGE

Bodywork
The offside front wing is scratched and the nearside front wing scuffed. The nearside door has fresh scratches on it, apart from an original, unrelated scratch. The nearside rear quarter panel is scratched, as well as the offside door and the roof panel is marked.
The vehicle is understood to have been refinished in cellulose and lacquered. Cellulose is no longer obtainable in the United Kingdom and the whole vehicle will have to be completely flatted back and repainted.

Body Fittings
Various body fittings have oxidised during the voyage, but it would appear that these will satisfactory clean up.
The interior was considerably contaminated with a mildew type residue due to the effect of water. However, the Claimant has satisfactorily cleaned the complete interior to a reasonable standard.

Mechanical
Many of the zinc bolts and nuts have oxidised due to the effect of water and also the disc back plates have oxidised and require re-plating.
The steering track rods have surface corrosion, but these will satisfactory clean off and re-paint.
The engine and gear box, as well as the suspension bolts have oxidised and these require re- plating as necessary.
All four brake callipers have oxidised and require refurbishment by specialists with new pistons and seals etc.
The drive shaft flanges have oxidised, these require refinishing by specialists. The rear fan and housing have oxidised, these require specialist refinishing.

This was sent to the insurers Hagerty and I waited for them to give the go ahead. They came back and said they would only insure the bodywork and not the damage that had resulted from oxidation. This was due to an exclusion in the policy as follows;

The cost of making good wear and tear, gradual deterioration, inherent defect, rust oxidation, moth or vermin damage, warping or shrinkage, fault or breakdown.

and another

Loss or damage caused by or resulting from aridity, humidity, exposure to light or extremes in temperature unless such loss is caused by storm or flood.

As you can imagine I went through a variety of feelings, firstly that I couldn't believe that the small print meant I would be out of pocket despite having taken out insurance. Secondly that the insurers thought damage resulting from seawater getting into the container wasn't covered! As they say the devils always in the detail. I kicked up a fuss, asked them to go back to the underwriters and explain they couldn't be sure that any damage wasn't done from a storm or flood and that there were two other cars in the container that had also been damaged in the same way.

After a week or so they came back with this;

“Under Exclusion D, the cost of making good rust oxidation is excluded regardless of how this was caused, therefore I do not believe the Assured’s arguments in respect of water ingress potentially being caused by a storm is relevant.

We therefore maintain that the damage caused by the rust is not covered under the policy. However we do have sympathy for the Assured’s situation, and therefore would be willing to offer 50% of the repair costs for the rusting on a without prejudice basis.”

So at this stage I have the sympathy vote and they have agreed to pay for the body work to be repaired and half of the mechanical work to be done. This represents about 75% of the total claim.

I went back to Kingstown Shipping and spoke to them about what Hagerty were offering. I asked them if they would foot the other 25% and after some consideration thankfully they agreed. Mark who works for Kingstown has been really easy to deal with and their reputation on here as the shippers of choice is still intact. Rinkens didn't look after the car and I would think twice about using them but overall I think it was just simple bad luck.

So at the moment Chris Turner has done some of the repairs, got the car through its MOT and got the carbs running sweetly. It is currently with Cris at 911RRR to sort out the damaged bodywork but as its been mostly raining in October I'm in no hurry to get it on the road until all the repairs are done.

Im hoping for a happy outcome and will post when I know more...

[murph2309]

Glad you got the claim covered overall, what a shag the whole thing is though. Still, be good to have the car crisp and lovely again.

Just need to get that wiring sorted now....any plans for that?

R

[inaglasshouse]

I'm glad this is on the way to being sorted. I felt very bad for you when you posted the after shipping pics. Horrible moment, I'm sure.

Just out of interest, in case it helps others, let me ask:

Secondly that the insurers thought damage resulting from seawater getting into the container wasn't covered!

Was this a marine shipping policy (as opposed to a more general car insurance policy)?

Cheers, Richard.

[911hillclimber]

I bought all the cellulose paint etc for my Lambretta a few months ago with zero probs.
Maybe pro paint shops won't touch it nowadays?

[inaglasshouse]

I bought all the cellulose paint etc for my Lambretta a few months ago with zero probs.
Maybe pro paint shops won't touch it nowadays?

Same here. Paint supply folks told me it was fine for use on historic cars, asked me about the car, and I think the reg number is noted on the invoice.
But again that was for home use, so haven't tried a pro paint shop...

[Midlifecrisis]

I'm glad this is on the way to being sorted. I felt very bad for you when you posted the after shipping pics. Horrible moment, I'm sure.

Just out of interest, in case it helps others, let me ask:

Secondly that the insurers thought damage resulting from seawater getting into the container wasn't covered!

Was this a marine shipping policy (as opposed to a more general car insurance policy)?

Cheers, Richard.

Thanks Richard,

Yes it was Marine insurance although to my untrained eye it felt like they had lifted it from a general insurance and changed a bit here and there. Hagerty were £330 and the other insurers Towergate were £1050, so I went for the cheaper option. Towergates document is 77 pages long however I did trawl through it after the event and it states..

Excluding rust, oxidisation, and discolouration, unless caused by direct contact with sea water.

So I guess they would have paid out unless there was another clause saying otherwise. Unfortunately you never really know until you have to claim.

[Midlifecrisis]

Glad you got the claim covered overall, what a shag the whole thing is though. Still, be good to have the car crisp and lovely again.

Just need to get that wiring sorted now....any plans for that?

R

Chris Turner has fixed all the wiring issues and we are good to go on that front...

[inaglasshouse]

Yes it was Marine insurance although to my untrained eye it felt like they had lifted it from a general insurance and changed a bit here and there. Hagerty were £330 and the other insurers Towergate were £1050, so I went for the cheaper option. Towergates document is 77 pages long however I did trawl through it after the event and it states..

Excluding rust, oxidisation, and discolouration, unless caused by direct contact with sea water.

So I guess they would have paid out unless there was another clause saying otherwise. Unfortunately you never really know until you have to claim.

Thanks Jos. Hopefully you've taken one for the team and we'll all read those policies more carefully in future!
For me it's really counterintuitive that the kind of damage your car suffered would not be covered. As we know, hundreds of cars are shipped every day without ending up rusted and mouldy. There was nothing normal or correct about the condition of your car when it arrived - the shipping process failed to deliver it in the state you would reasonably expect.
To my tiny mind, that seems like exactly the risk that marine insurance should cover, in order to be worthy of the name.

Anyway I think it's hats off to Kingstown for paying the difference. Not sure I'm impressed with Hegarty in this case.

Cheers, good luck with the recommissioning,
Richard.

[sladey]

Glad to hear you've got it covered - even so it must be frustrating to be having to wait again to be able to drive it. It'll be fantastic when you do though

[neilbardsley]

Good to hear some good news. You are in good hands with Cris and Chris

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[jjeffries]

Sorry to hear about this...very annoying, to say the least. Perhaps your paintwork is already repaired, and I imagine that what I'm about to say is obvious, but that is to check with the painter in Colorado as to exactly what materials he used. I thoroughly doubt he used cellulose...I don't think anyone uses that here in the US...except maybe shops doing brass-era cars. Acylic lacquer was used for years, but that too was ages ago. I'd imagine it was done in urethane base/clear...modern paint? I wish you luck in making all lovely again. John in Connecticut, USA.