Back in beige

[Gary71]

So... Back to the colour debate!

Does black primer influence that choice?

[jamie]

A bit. It looks great in satin black, but it's a cliche.

In order of preference - satin silver, Aetna Blue, Sand Beige.

I like Sand Beige, but my girlfriend doesn't get it. That's fine. I'd like her to like the car. I think if we were in California (where everything is yellowy-beige - buildings, tarmac, light) she would feel differently, but she says it looks nasty, and I think it feels a bit weak and sloppy here in the predominantly green or grey-toned environs of the UK.

Satin silver because it suits the bare-bones, monochrome, basic ethos of what I want from the car.

Aetna Blue because it's just a pleasant, oldschool tone and I haven't seen another early 911 in that shade. One pops up on a Google images search, but that's all.

For the last few days I've been thinking it's satin silver.

Now the next question... Lacquer, Cellulose, Single-stage Urethane, 2k Urethane or Water based...

The best solution I can find for a satin finish is a paint called Hot Rod Flatz. I think I mentioned it earlier in this thread. It's made from a PPG 2k Urethane called Omni - basically a colour, with flattener added. Omni is a cheap insurance-job refinish paint, but it looks OK in Hot Rod Flatz guise.

The 2k element of 2k Urethane is Urethane + hardener. The hardener contains isocyanates, which I'm scared shitless of. I realised I'm going to die some day, it's just I don't want to die the slow, painful death that isocyanate poisoning brings with it.

So I'd need an air-fed mask, a second compressor and a three-stage air filtration system (to remove the air and water from the compressed air delivery) if I want to make sure I don't ingest any of that shite. That's £1000 on something I'd never use again. Amazingly, I can't find anywhere that rents air-fed mask systems...

Still not sure how to approach this issue. The next stage of the job involves getting a few coats of high-build primer on the shell, but that stuff contains isocyanates, too.

[rich73]

Hi Jamie
Could this be the way forward?

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/121612842822?nav=SEARCH

Not too far away as well.
I was in the same position as you when I painted my car and bought second compressor, mask, filters and gti pro gun. You also need to build something like this to get the water out of the air as filter won't remover it.

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/air-system.htm

I was pleased with the results but main problem was getting fumes extracted and getting more air in without dust. Also when using 2K clear over base (metalic) you have to spray the clear coat approx 20 mins after the base so can get a bit stressful.
I have a T110 air cap on the which produces an amazingly smooth finish but down side it that it's not very efficient in terms of paint transfer (a high percentage ends up in the air rather than on the car) meaning that if you don't have good ventilation then your finish is degraded by over spray landing on it. A more efficient HVLP may be better bet.
I know it's not as durable as 2K but I do enjoy spraying cellulose solid colours at home. As long as you get plenty of paint on the car without too many flies then you can cut back to a mirror finish. You could take same approach with 2K but cutting is much harder.
Hope this helps, there is loads of good info in the metal finishing section of mig-welding.Co.uk , anything posted by langy seems to be really useful.
Rich

[jamie]

Thanks Rich. I actually just received an amazingly kind offer from a fellow DDKer who has a similar spray booth, so I now feel a lot better about the paint bit (and relieved that I might not have to build that crazy water extraction system).

I've been reading about high-build primer. Apparently you can roller it on - crap finish not a problem as it will be sanded-back anyway. This keeps the isocyanates down (obviously still fumey, but not a fine mist like from a gun).

I'm going to give this a go!

[Mick Cliff]

.... Apparently you can roller it on - crap finish not a problem as it will be sanded-back anyway. This keeps the isocyanates down (obviously still fumey, but not a fine mist like from a gun).

I'm going to give this a go!

Chris Jury painted his ModRod with rollers! Check out his work on here

[jury]

and I can still feel the pain from all that sanding


Obviously spraying will get into all the nooks and crannies to add an extra layer of protection.

[haasad]

Jamie, I understand your concern over isocyanates but you need to make a decision over using a paint system with them or not. Eliminating the hazard is the essential step so if you don't need to use it don't. From then on its about risk mitigation. Relying on respiratory protection with no face fit data for you personally is next to useless since there is zero guarantee over it reaching the correct Assigned Protection Factor in use with out this, secondarily you must be trained in its (RPE) use and maintenance to ensure repeatability, thirdly in order to ensure correct filtration type you need the Manufacturers Safety Data sheet and a proffesional Control of Substances Hazardous to Health assessment done for you situation of use. Bring these three thing together and you have the bones of what is called a Safe System of Work for that material in the context of a first party.
Be aware though that all those fillers primers paints and associated dust and fumes all have Occupational Exposure Limits and present a hazard so there is no risk free solution short of doing nothing.

However the above is all about Work. You are not at Work but are a hobbyist so are exempt from the above. The best solution for your or anyone else doing this as a hobby is to use good local area extract fans so your working area remains ventilated with the discharge well away from the inlet point, cheap pre filters over the inlet and extract point control dirt. Once you have that a good quality (3m) tight fitting P3 disposable face mask would be a good idea and follow the instructions for use carefully regarding fit and checks of such. The more often we do this work as a hobby or not the higher the risk so the better protected we should be.

Lets not even get started on 3rd party or environmental protection....

I hasten to add although I work in Safety I'm not a member of the "elfnsafety" brigade, the above really should be common sense.

[911hillclimber]

When I was much younger and more foolish I painted several cars, 6 in fact, all in cellulose, the last was my 911 which I did in 1989.
It was a single car garage at home with a new Machine mart compressor and a cheap gun.

Did all the primers and top coat with a simple paper dust mask that possibly fitted, all it really did was to make my glasses steam up.
After the painting (a 2 week period spare time activity) it was ok, and still on the car now though with some micro blistering in places thanks to a Carcoon winter 3 years ago.

No extraction, ventilation came from under the garage door.
I knew exactly the colour the cars were when I blew my nose.

Thus I did everything wrong and would not repeat this today. but I'm still here, and contemplating re-doing the car later this year/winter but will try to find a man to primer and paint it in cellulose.

I'm not sure that this is worth any reasonable risk, and best find the time to find a local painter who will be happy to spray it for you and for you to finish it all off. Biggest issue will be stopping Porsche Tax being added.

[jamie]

Thanks guys. Andy - I am glad I'm not doing this day-in, day-out! I realise there's a risk with all the products I'm using - all I'm trying to do is avoid the obvious (known) nasty one, and limit my exposure to the others. The Dinitrol escapade was a mistake - must have been like sniffing a hundred tins of Cow Gum all at once. It was fun, but I kind of scared myself there because I was so completely mangled during and after.

I knew exactly the colour the cars were when I blew my nose.

I've had a few of these. The sandblasting was pretty brutal - I was wearing my 3M 6000 mask during the whole thing, but even just being in the garage afterwards was enough for my nose to clog up with dust. (and I suppose, my lungs with silicates).

One note on the 3M mask - I ordered a size medium, which was a mistake because I have a massive chin. For the first few days use the mask was very tight and left a sore across the bridge of my nose. I stayed with it, because it didn't leak (easy to do a basic check by putting your hand over the exhaust valve and blowing out), and eventually it became less sore to wear. I don't think my face has changed shape, but now the mask is very comfortable. So if you are looking at getting one of these (they're really good) perhaps worth going a size down from what you expect, and letting it mould to your gob over time.

This morning I mixed-up a batch of high build (Upol 20:25, in black) and foam-rollered the car. I wore my 3M mask with 6051 A1 organic vapour filters and didn't smell anything till I had left the garage.

I chose black high-build as I discovered that with the black epoxy, the dust produced during sanding creates a sort of guide coat, which is useful for seeing low points. It's just a bit easier to judge the surface than with the usual grey / green.

The high-build went on nice and thick. The finish isn't great - being thick and quick-drying, there are still roller marks all over, but the stuff is going to be sanded right back, so the marks should help tell me where I've been and haven't been. I found the best way to reduce the high roller marks was to wait just long enough for the main part of the paint to flash dry, then go over the wet marks with the roller again to flatten them down.

I've got a busy couple of weeks with work coming up, so it will have lots of time to dry and should prevent solvent popping further down the line.

[jamie]

.... Apparently you can roller it on - crap finish not a problem as it will be sanded-back anyway. This keeps the isocyanates down (obviously still fumey, but not a fine mist like from a gun).

I'm going to give this a go!

Chris Jury painted his ModRod with rollers! Check out his work on here

I have been following Chris's build. I absolutely love the car. The rollered Rustoleum paint is really cool and I was considering doing a similar thing myself.

I did PM Chris a while back to enquire about it. As he said above, it's just as much work, if not more, than doing it with a gun.

Funny thing is, I kind of enjoy the sanding bit - radio on, brain off, and away you go...

[Mitch]

As usual, I'm in awe of you & anyone else who gets stuck into this work Jamie.

But just in case you change your mind.. I got you this sticker!

[jamie]

Nice!

I've been yo-yoing again. Right now I'm on sanding the high-build to 200-grit and leaving as is, then coating with this half paint, half wrap product called Plasti Dip. It goes on with a spray gun, and dries like a wrap. Seems easy to use, durable, impermeable. Some truly revolting luminous colours that I would have liked ten years ago. Now I'm grown up and pensive, it's all greys and blacks and subtle stuff that takes my fancy.

Silver with a black pearl clearcoat, or black with the Metallizer product they do - I think both of these would give something close to what I have in mind.

This is black with pearl:



This is black with Metallizer:



As you can see, it looks absolutely like paint. Like a wrap, it can be removed from the car in minutes. Unlike a wrap, each application only costs a few hundred quid and the process appears to be idiot-proof. So for the price of one wrap I could do six seven colour changes, at my home, at my leisure.

I've spent hundreds of hours searching through paint finishes on the web now. I've become totally preoccupied with getting the latent concept bang-the-f*** right first time around. It's eating me alive, and it's not good. Thinking about it all the time. Losing sleep thinking about it. Just spending too much time generally obsessing over it. Unfortunately, when I get onto something, I have it in me to obsess like a total maniac.

Like my earlier posts about getting the car wrapped, at least with this method I could get the thing built, MOT'd, registered and on the road again before I cut an ear off.

In other news, whilst on my travels through Google images, I found this - a stainless-steel 911. Thought it was pretty awesome. I'd hoon-around in that all day long (but only after I'd lowered the front about 10 inches).

[jamie]

Thought this was quite interesting, too - Stainless Steel pearl, presumably over black. This could be mixed with clear Plasti Dip and applied over my car's black primer. Quite a lairy look.

[jamie]

My god.

https://youtu.be/ZxU3tchXKgA?list=UUsqs ... 8peD11olPw

[Sam]

^ Rad. Do that.

Any videos of the presenter with his shirt off? So sexy. Such guns.