Okrasa Special
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Re: Okrasa Special
I suggested it to Barry, along with a Zagato-style double bubble and a slightly dropped roof line, but I got short shrift! Rightly so, as we agreed we would not change anything the original builder did.
'53 356 Pre-A (a box of bits!)
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)
http://www.pushrod.org
http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)
http://www.pushrod.org
http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
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- Nurse, I think I need some assistance
- Posts: 4319
- Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:50 pm
- Location: East Sussex
Re: Okrasa Special
I did say that I would describe as best I can how I've being going about making the panels.
As mentioned, I'll leave the panels pictured above for now, even though they all need a final tickle. The basic shapes are about right, but there's a lot of fettling and finessing to do (my favourite bit actually). The reason being is that there's no point at all getting a final finish on a panel (assuming I can of course), if it turns out that the basic shape doesn't blend with the adjacent areas, and the shape of the whole is a way off. It's all a bit chicken-n-egg: it's difficult to make a call on the shape until the panels blend together well, but you don't want to invest a large number of hours in the finishing, until you're pretty certain the basic shape is right.
Anyway, as the next area to be tackled is the front wing, so that we can start to eyeball down the whole side of the car, I'll detail this. Any methods I use are simply those that I've been shown either first hand, or via books and vidoes. There are probably many, many ways of approaching this work, some better than others, some worse. It may well be the case that later on I find a better way of doing things, or try something else, only to return to this method.
The first thing I do is come up with a paper template. This is a doddle if you've got an existing panel to work with (perhaps a rough or rusty one), but much harder when coming off of a buck, as you have less to press the paper to. Usually you'll gather up loose areas and tape them, which represent areas that will need shrinking. By the same token, areas that need stretching get slits cut, and opened up.
In this case, I simply pressed the pattern onto the wireform as best I could, and taped up the creases. The neater you can do this the better, but this rather woeful attempt was plenty good enough for this example.
The idea of the paper pattern is that a) it gives you a template to mark around when cutting material, and b) it tells you as much as possible about where shape in the panel is going to fall. The advantage a paper pattern has over and above the jig, is that is doesn't depend on the angle of twist that a panel may have. It'll still fit the panel (and guide you), even if the panel is twisted, propeller style. Often when working with a buck only, you're tempted to just keep wheeling and wheeling, even if, in actual fact, the panel had the correct shape (shrink and stretch), just the wrong alignment.
This can be seen below: the pattern has been placed on the flat sheet, and it's clear just where the majority of wheeling needs to occur, irrespective of the position of the aluminium. It also just shows to what degree the metal needs shifting:
It's even more obvious with the blank placed on the buck: nearly there!
Note that the metal has a degree of grain, and rather like corrogated cardboard, it will take a shape with the grain a fraction easier than across it, although this half-hard ally is fairly friendly in this respect. Even so it makes sense to work with it where possible, and this also illustrates why sometimes someone might cut into a new sheet, rather than use an offcut that at first glance would fit the bill:
To return to the panel: I decided (not sure wisely or not), to attempt it in just two areas. This write up deals with the roughing out stage of the rear one. This area has some challenges: 1) to get the actual curve over the top of the wing to blend into the area head of it. 2) There is a return (reverse curve) all the way down the inner area that will blend into the 'bonnet'. There is another where the wing / bonnet blend into the scuttle. 3) The base of the wing drops into the sill, which obviously curves away underneath the car.
If all of the shapes where put in in one go, the panel would no longer clear the english wheel. Therefore I elected to get the top fitting correctly first, and then will worry about the side / arch and sill areas later.
Pictures of the wireform show the shape:
I'm forming this panel 95% on the wheel, and will just use the flipper for forming the return down the bonnet side. So all of this shaping is being done by stretching the metal. It'll probably end up being one gauge down at it's 'thinnest', but since we're starting off at 16g, we've got loads of meat in reserve. The alternatives might be to form the panel with more parts (more welding as well), or to employ shrinking as well. In this case though, shrinking would have got messy, and in fact I can't really see how you could do this without really needing a load of tidying up later.
Anyway, embryo panel as I left it yesterday. Pattern and cutting out probably took a hour and a half, wheeling to this point around six hours going carefully (better not to wheel enough, than over-wheel and have all the hassle of wheeling shape back out. You can see that the panel is still well off of the wireform (seen at the front here, but in reality it's all round, I'll keeping wheeling out the areas touching the buck until it all sits down O.K.).
The next stages will involve dropping the panel hard down onto the wireform (hopefully!), then blending the shape into the side of the panel. Because of the shape, I'm going to have to put a finish on the panel before moving away from the top (it's very, very rough at the moment, which is fine, the finish starts to come when the shape is very nearly there). After that I'll move dwon the panel to blend it with the adjacent panels, and finally once all looks O.K., form the sill area (if I go that route: it may look better with the sill line going all of the way forward, and the wing sitting on top of the line: we'll see, and both options are well open).
Last edited by Barry on Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
DDK Member1243 07741 273865. Now booking Spring '24. Home of the RY Austin 7 Trophy's
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Re: Okrasa Special
Lovely work as ever Barry
It must be great to master a new skill like this. Much respect.
It must be great to master a new skill like this. Much respect.
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Re: Okrasa Special
Thanks Gary, there's certainly no shortage of challenges but I think we'll get there O.K. ...
One thing that has been a constant pain has been the bracket welded onto the side of the English Wheel's anvil piller. Neither I or the sellers where able to think of a good reason for it to stay, although it was clearly fitted for some special reason back in the day. It was pretty hefty as the pics show. Whenever I was wheeling a tight panel, the bracket would keep getting in the way.
Yesterday was the final straw, as the embryo front wing kept brushing the bracket with a less than charming clang, clang, clang , clang (etc). With all of the cars in the workshop, I didn't fancy covering everything up: it would have taken hours. I did try to remove the main shaft so that the piller could have come out of the wheel (which would have been much the preferred route), but as I'd Locktite'ed the whole thing together, it was in there solid (quite rightly).
Anyway, 40 minutes and one hacksaw blade later and is was gone. At some point I'll take the fume extractor up and grind way the stub, but at least it's out of the way as far as wheeling is concerned:
It did in fact take two attempts: about six mm through, I realised I'd be cutting into the main piller, so had to start again. Lovely.
Anyway, at least that's one less thing to negotiate around during wheeling.
One thing that has been a constant pain has been the bracket welded onto the side of the English Wheel's anvil piller. Neither I or the sellers where able to think of a good reason for it to stay, although it was clearly fitted for some special reason back in the day. It was pretty hefty as the pics show. Whenever I was wheeling a tight panel, the bracket would keep getting in the way.
Yesterday was the final straw, as the embryo front wing kept brushing the bracket with a less than charming clang, clang, clang , clang (etc). With all of the cars in the workshop, I didn't fancy covering everything up: it would have taken hours. I did try to remove the main shaft so that the piller could have come out of the wheel (which would have been much the preferred route), but as I'd Locktite'ed the whole thing together, it was in there solid (quite rightly).
Anyway, 40 minutes and one hacksaw blade later and is was gone. At some point I'll take the fume extractor up and grind way the stub, but at least it's out of the way as far as wheeling is concerned:
It did in fact take two attempts: about six mm through, I realised I'd be cutting into the main piller, so had to start again. Lovely.
Anyway, at least that's one less thing to negotiate around during wheeling.
DDK Member1243 07741 273865. Now booking Spring '24. Home of the RY Austin 7 Trophy's
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- Nurse, I think I need some assistance
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Re: Okrasa Special
Not sure what the lines arching through the cut are? Resonance of the hacksaw blade perhaps?
DDK Member1243 07741 273865. Now booking Spring '24. Home of the RY Austin 7 Trophy's
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Re: Okrasa Special
steve wright wrote: I'm planning on leaving the body out in the garden over this winter
DDK Member1243 07741 273865. Now booking Spring '24. Home of the RY Austin 7 Trophy's
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Re: Okrasa Special
I never appreciated what was involved in wheeling a panel. I just turn up some mornings and a new panel is laying there on the wireform buck, like the wheeling fairy has been
'53 356 Pre-A (a box of bits!)
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)
http://www.pushrod.org
http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)
http://www.pushrod.org
http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
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- Nurse, I think I need some assistance
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Re: Okrasa Special
- is this your affectionate name for Barry ?I just turn up some mornings and ... the wheeling fairy has been
Andy
“Adding power makes you faster on the straights;
- subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere”
“Adding power makes you faster on the straights;
- subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere”
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- DDK rules my life!
- Posts: 1036
- Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:17 pm
Re: Okrasa Special
you should see him in his tutu
'53 356 Pre-A (a box of bits!)
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)
http://www.pushrod.org
http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)
http://www.pushrod.org
http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
-
- DDK rules my life!
- Posts: 1036
- Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:17 pm
Re: Okrasa Special
Last edited by steve wright on Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
'53 356 Pre-A (a box of bits!)
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)
http://www.pushrod.org
http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)
http://www.pushrod.org
http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
Re: Okrasa Special
They're all idiots.steve wright wrote:but there are plenty of hotrod VW guys out there
Love the Hilborn stuff.
Sonja's engine runs the Mahle machine in top & bottom 88mm b&p, it's not so much 200hp mind.
Martin Rogers
+44 (0)7812 167547
'69 Ossi blue warmrod 3.0 911T
[sold & sorely missed]'67S '70 Targa T '75 914/4 x 2
+44 (0)7812 167547
'69 Ossi blue warmrod 3.0 911T
[sold & sorely missed]'67S '70 Targa T '75 914/4 x 2
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- Nurse, I think I need some assistance
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Re: Okrasa Special
Lightweight_911 wrote:- is this your affectionate name for Barry ?I just turn up some mornings and ... the wheeling fairy has been
DDK Member1243 07741 273865. Now booking Spring '24. Home of the RY Austin 7 Trophy's
Re: Okrasa Special
Hello? Steve???? Barry????
It's been over a month. . .
Did an alien spaceship abduct the Special?
Or . . . needing repairs for the spaceship, did the aliens abduct Barry?
It's been over a month. . .
Did an alien spaceship abduct the Special?
Or . . . needing repairs for the spaceship, did the aliens abduct Barry?
Happy Motoring,
Bruce
Bruce
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- DDK rules my life!
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Re: Okrasa Special
Sorry it's been a while. Well it was going well, but take a deep breath... after getting the right side wheeled, Barry wasn't happy with the fit, so it went in the bin! Talk about a brave move. A re-jig of the wireform buck to make it flow between the wings and doors has seen things sorted, but we're back to a naked shape and no ally
'53 356 Pre-A (a box of bits!)
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)
http://www.pushrod.org
http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
'54 Okrasa/Porsche/VW special
'58 356A Super (GS-spec)
'65 Razoredge Ghia
'66 Westfalia Camper
'70 911S (2.3 ST Le-Mans spec engine)
http://www.pushrod.org
http://www.classicporschemag.co.uk
Okrasa Special
Ouch..... That would have hurt.
Best wishes from the cheap seats.
Best wishes from the cheap seats.