New engine dyno facility

[Mike]

To answer the questions on how the dyno loads up, here's the not so shiney stuff which runs the water
brake system to produce the correct torque on the flywheel.

[Mike]

Its amazing how far you can expand your business just by the invoices off one Mike Moore recreation

Now we're coming to the end of my 'project' Neil has to find a way of amusing himself somehow!

[mk1gaz]

You shouldn't tune an engine on a engine dyno and fit it into the car without checking it on a rolling road afterwards as the fueling/timing could be out

I think Neil might just disagree with you there, the whole point of the engine dyno in it's cell is that you can replicate the environment in which the engine
performs on the open road far more accurately than you can by strapping the whole car down on a pair of rollers and thrashing to within an inch of it's life
with no air going through it! The heat alone in the engine bay generated when you do that bears no resemblance whatsoever to the air flow over the
engine when your cruising down the motorway at 70mph, and that has a tremendous affect on the air/fuel mixture.

An engine dyno tuned engine is nothing like the same engine once it's in a car though . New dyno-dynamics chassis dynos with massive fans will create better final tuning conditions than climate controlled engine stands with guessed transmission loadings and zero airflow resistrictions (engine sitting in the middle of a room) . Engine dynos are only any use for getting an engine running and for checking/fixing problems before you fit it into the car . Plus you can use it for trying out performance upgrades/bolt on's as it faster and easier when the engines sitting on a test bench in the open . When this is done you then you put it into the car and onto a chassis dyno for real tunning . Hope that makes sense .

[Mike]

Hope that makes sense

No it doesn't I'm afraid!

The dynamic working efficiency of an engine is not an variable thing, it is a given, the state of tune once optimised by the air/fuel/ignition
ratio's to produce maximum power/torque along the engine's inherent curve, does not change from the dyno cell to the car as long as the
installation is done correctly

It's best we agree to disagree here, but leave you with the thought...... when did you last see a Formula 1 car on a set of rollers!

[johndglynn]

when did you last see a Formula 1 car on a set of rollers!

Don't forget F1 cars have their ECUs read every time they run and there are a bank of guys behind those screens messing with the data. Different fuel positions/engine maps can be selected from the wheel. The racetrack is an F1 car's rollers.

I agree with Gaz; there will probably be differences from the engine dyno to the installation. All manufacturers road test engines in situ for thousands of miles after the engine itself has been tested to destruction in their multitude of dyno cells. Admittedly not all of the chassis testing is for mapping purposes, but a fair percentage of it is and all the emissions and economy testing is done with the motor in the chassis.

On older cars we are probably talking small small differences but they will be there.

[Mike]

John, using the F1 analogy was to make the point about pro run racing cars, even with the historics for instance all the front runners in their GT40's
at Goodwood will have had their set up work done on engine dyno's as you have far more control over the conditions and can put sensors all over the
motor to analyse exactly whats going on. Nobody who actually really knows about these things would dispute the advantage of the engine dyno.

The big disadvantage of the engine dyno has always been costs, so the clubman type racer on a limited budget and the amateur will go for the rolling
road and get great results for what they are. The advantage of the rollers also being ease of use, drive in drive out and it's done quickly.

What Neil has done, is build a facility which for the first time opens up the engine dyno to more our kind of people, taking it out of the rarefied world
of the racing car and making it accessible to all. As the man himself doesn't do forums I'm just passing on his comments but cleaning them up and
putting it a bit more politely than he would!

[mk1gaz]

Yes we'll have too disagree cos there's no way an "engine dyno" tuned engine that's been set up on a bench for max performance is the same once it's fitted into a car , especially in a crammed , hot , 911 boot turning 4wd systems , air con shite and 19 inch rims etc etc !!!! .
If you buy any high performance engine kit from a tuners and they say "it made an extra 50bhp on our engine dyno" then you know its really 35bhp after you've bought it a fitted into your car , lol . They all do it , Ford , Vauxhall , Mini , BMW etc etc tuners mostly quote Engine dyno numbers for kits so you can't complain when you've fitted it and the power gain isn't there !!!!!!
Anyway i'm not having a dig , just making conversation about an interesting subject plus i know i'm right .

[mk1gaz]

but leave you with the thought...... when did you last see a Formula 1 car on a set of rollers!

Last year as my mates working on this one . It's only a 1980's V6 turbo so nothing too complex .

[myatt1972]

but leave you with the thought...... when did you last see a Formula 1 car on a set of rollers!

Last year as my mates working on this one . It's only a 1980's V6 turbo so nothing too complex .

Thats just a 2 post ramp, probably used to get the engine out for dyno.
Sorry, couldnt help that, I know nothing about dyno's so Im finding this thread very interesting.

[mk1gaz]

The engine's still in the car but it's being converted from 1980's F1 engine mangement to modern engine management so it can run on normal pump super unleaded . The original 1980's turbo race fuel is highly toxic and very dangerous so the owner wants this problem addressed . Power was quoted at approx 1500bhp but this will drop to about 600bhp with the fuel swop . It's Jean Alessi's actual turbo F1 car from the 1980's so worth a few quid and it will be doing trackdays soon hopefully . Probably get black flagged for noise and flames though !!!!

[myatt1972]

Amazing difference in bhp from changing fuel.
Has he got any of the old fuel left

[gridgway]

So, I'm pretty confused. There's a lot of looking down ones noses that goes on about rolling roads and their abilities to get repeatable and useful results. The engine dyno being the accurate and repeatable way.

Now there's a lot of looking down ones noses on the subject of the engine dyno with the RR being the answer.

All we need is a debate about (corrected) bhp versus rwhp to conclude that we know jack shite about tuning engines!

Graham

[mk1gaz]

Amazing difference in bhp from changing fuel.
Has he got any of the old fuel left

You wouldn't want it as it doubles as a chemical warfare substiute , lol , spill some on your skin and you'll probably get cancer next week !!!!!

[mk1gaz]

All we need is a debate about (corrected) bhp versus rwhp to conclude that we know jack shite about tuning engines!

Graham

We could have a debate but people will get upset due to all the brain washing tactics used over the years !!!!

[johndglynn]

Like it. A friend of mine has two F1 Masters cars and they have both been on the rollers. I was out of the country both times - typical!