911 2.7RS

[Gary71]

I have yellow front and rear.

Somehow I now feel dirty and abused by my Bilstein stockist

[one-two]

Have it your way - I've looked at some pics and I can see that I have both configurations. At the risk of stating the obvious, I don't think you want to confuse the colour of the casing with what's inside. We use Ford Modena green for the green ones by the way. I'm sure the guys with the fantastic resto will have some to hand.

[fryardds]

BTW Did the 300 kph speedo not appear until the '74 Carrera ?
And the black headlining ?

Nigel,

The speedo scale was changed from 250 to 300 KPH on March 9, '73. So cars produced prior would have probably come with the 250 version. This tidbit is helpful when researching a car and the owner states "Blah, blah, blah original miles" but if the speedo has been changed based on the March production and is confirmed by the date code on the speedo then you know otherwise.

The black headliner was standard on the RSH and was left in place if the customer ordered M471 conversion. If the RS was a M472 conversion it was changed to white unless black was special ordered.

[fryardds]

Hi Brian,

Here's a couple of photos from my file - I think these are the best I have of that area....

Paul,

Very nice photos. These are going straight to my computer for future reference photos. Do you know what day in October your RS was completed? Thanks much.

Mike,

You are so correct. After I saw Paul's photos I noticed the same thing you point out that the tunnel is indeed reinforced on the eBay RS. Thanks for responding.

[Spydermon]

Good post Brian.
I'm very surprised to see its got yellow Bilsteins on the front
with greens on the rear.
BTW Did the 300 kph speedo not appear until the '74 Carrera ?
And the black headlining ?
Seems some way off Freisinger standards.

Hi Nigel, thanks for posting.

Do you mean that the finish is not up to Freisinger, or the detailing?


Steve.

[Spydermon]

Agree 100% - there is no scope for misrepresentation, ever.
But I guess my secondary point is that I am passionate that cars end up with good, thoughtful custodians who can work on the less than perfect elements as time passes and make them even better examples over time. Add positively to their history if you lke. Thats what I like to think I'm doing with my cars. Then we make them available to the next round of buyers, as and when.
As for price, well I still think RS Tourings are cheap at 150-160k!! Sorry!!
1,311 odd F40's and an average one is 225k? I promise you, after 7 years in the driving seat of an F40, as great as it is, I'd rather have a 2.7RS and 60 grand in my pocket. Same applies (with slightly different marginal economics to the 993GT2, Carrera GT etc etc). No comparison.
Sorry to play devils advocate but this is a 2.7RS thread and, well, thats my humble opinion.

Hi G!

Thanks for getting involved here; I asked for your thoughts and I welcome them! You've made two great posts here, and yes it is the 2.7Rs thread, and you are well qualified to comment on that, especially with your past experiences.

I feel that I will be both caretaker and driver, and the key to ownership of a 'correct' RS is a balance of the both. But I like the place you are coming from, I think that I'm very similar. I often appear more cautious and circumspect than I actually am, this is because I am learning a lot and really enjoying that process too.

Whatever I buy it will get used, as much as I can, but if I don't feel right about some day it will stay locked in its air box in the garage!

Please keep the comments coming G, you have a great perspective.

Steve.

[Spydermon]

Paul
That is really interesting. I nearly bought a Daytona about a year ago. At that stage ISTR prices a fair bit higher than your 85k: I'd have snapped that one up!!!
At the moment Daytona prices seem to be all over the place. I spoke to a dealer a while ago who said he wouldn't write a cheque for more than 120-140 for a good car, yet Coys got 202k (excluding premium..etc) on a plexiglass in January and the Gstaad Bonhams sale had 2 cars: A nicely rstored car that went for £180k and a slightly tired one that went for about 130k. I have a feeling Daytona prices may end up stagnating for a while to come. The styling isn't for everyone and they're not really a great drive unless you're hammering down a big open road at 100+
Personally love them though. Passed a rather nice blue one heading down to Goodwood this morning as I was driving home

I have always loved Daytona's too. In fact I've often wondered whether this would be the car for me. But it is the more approachable useability of the RS that has always brought me back to it.
There are other classic interesting options that I could have followed, but I think the only car that might drag me away from an RS is a certain Daytona Spyder ''MPH 77L', that used to be at Loughrans, along with William's coupe 'ULT 1'. One of the six 'true' Scaglietti RHD cars, I'd sell the family for this! This obviously(?) is where the username comes from.

Cheers,


Steve.

[Spydermon]

Agree completely, the cost and relative paucity of truly impressive pieces of machinery in current production (below a couple of hundred thousand quid for 599's etc), encourages people to look back in time for inspiration.
But why are classic prices forging ahead and why are they going to stay pretty firm? Well I'm no economist or social scientist but a lot of factors just seem to say the market for good stuff is on a firm footing
-proliferation of events in which we can use classics
-relative lack of leverage in the system compared to the 80's (people are paying cash for classics, not doing a Brocket)
-demographics: forgive me for the assumption but most of us are probably in our forties, these things are indulgences and a passion- perhaps things we aspired to but couldn't afford years ago (my own case)-so we are pretty sticky owners of them
-relative to other "art forms", the rarest of cars are still pretty cheap. There were a few huge modern art sales late last year and the general feeling was the glut would be bad for the market, it wasn't and prices pressed on again
-also, I think there is a bit of a general resurgence of love for the 70's out there too whether cars, watches, guitars etc - its the next decade to be embraced now that everything made in the 60's is fully valued
-so many events are '66 or prior but Tour Auto and many more events now cover the early to mid 70's, so the RS, Daytona, Stratos etc are all finding their place also
Anyway, completely pointless ramble, but thats why, in part, I think these beautiful cars have limited downside.

Totally agree with this too! Great use of 'paucity!'

As for the 70's; yes I agree that it is becoming more prominent, but only the good parts of it. I have no wish to ever see 'g' plan furniture, avocado bathroom suites, or two-tone green trimphones ever again.


Steve.

[Spydermon]

Just for perspective, I bought a £15K Renault Clio cup last weekend. Never had so much fun. In a car. I could have bought 17 of them for the prices you're talking about here. Is this thread about driving or investment? I can't believe the colour of the shock absorber casing makes much difference to the former!

Hi One-two,

I have to be honest, I just don't know where you are coming from half the time?
But, just for perspective's sake; my 17 year old nephew thinks that you are at the height of profligacy and filthy lucre paying 'fifteen grand!' (in his words) for a 'racing car!' When he cannot afford to buy an ordinary one for 'actual transport!' And you mention other 'racecars'! Not short of a bob or two yourself then?

Methinks the One-two doth protest too much, get thee to a track-day!

Steve.

[one-two]

Steve, careful - it's not me that is talking about paying 250K. Will you be lending it to the young lad you mention? If and when you get one, please bring it one of my trackdays - but only if you've got the right elastic in the door pocket!

[Spydermon]

Perhaps the general theme of the thread ( re last couple of pages ) is coming down to .........."wanting is better than having!".. certainly a lot of the pleasure I get out of a car is the research that's carried out prior to purchase !... and as a client of mine reminded me earlier this week...... "be careful what you wish for because one day you might get it !" ........ after all what are we all going to talk about when Steve finally gets his RS ?!

Ey up Steve!

As I stated back at the beginning (way back!) I have waited a long time for this, so, as far as I can, I am going to get it right.
I am humbled that so many people have joined in with this thread, and look at the stats! Over 12,000 views! I never expected that. My opinion was that everybody would get bored and ignore it. But they haven't, and what a wealth of knowledge and information I have received!

Even though we are only cyber-buddies at the moment, I feel a connection to the posters in that we have a common love and enjoyment of fantastic classic cars -apart from One-two!- most especially DDK!

The incredible enjoyment I have gained from this sharing and the ribaldry and the jibes is fantastic. I have even been crowned 'king of the Double-Posters' (ask Derek) for which I am honoured to receive.

You should see the PM's I have received! The knowledge I have gained from those has given me the confidence to walk away from dodgey cars sure that a better one will be along shortly, and have they? Witness the two Tangerine dreams just appeared! And the uber car that 964RS has our breath baited for?!

I will buy one of these cars, I might even buy two.........Hope the T+S doesn't see this.....

Don't worry Steve, we will have lots to talk about when I get it, this is just the start!

Please, everybody, keep your thoughts and opinions coming, I value and enjoy them greatly, and it appears you have an audience!


Cheers,


Steve.

[Spydermon]

Steve, careful - it's not me that is talking about paying 250K. Will you be lending it to the young lad you mention? If and when you get one, please bring it one of my trackdays - but only if you've got the right elastic in the door pocket!

Only meant in jest One-Two! I won't be paying 250k for one car, that's for sure!
You know I would get him a car, but his Ma and Pa won't let me, yet!
"If and when..." Ouch! Wait and see, and I would never appear without the correct elastic, but I'd love to appear and have a go, whatever car I get.


Steve.

[IanMcLeod]

Ian_uk - why do you say that there is a bigger difference between the RS and the S than between the S and the T and E? I thought it was just 20bhp and some silly stickers and unsightly arches, but maybe you know differently?

Blimey go away for two days and this thread has four new pages already!

The comment was made to highligh the fact that the T,E and S are basically the same body shell, arches, glass, wheels, trimming options etc.

The RS has lots of differences that Porsche wanted on thier race car and therefore put them on the RS only for homologation purposes (for example the rear tunnel strengthening and the ali cross member discussed in the last few pages, thinner body panels, thinner glass, revised banana arms for the later RSs, 2.7 mag case, etc).

This is a great informative thread BTW

Ian.

[one-two]

Understood Ian - I realised on reading other posts that you guys were mostly thinking about the body panels and so on whereas I was mostly thinking about the mechanical side.

[mairesse]

Well, it would be disingenuous at this stage if I didn’t admit that Italy is where my motoring heart lies. Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa and Lancia all featuring at one time or another and in one form or another in the garage. I once bought a lovely car from William and it turned out to be the best piece of “accidental investing” I think I’ve ever done. I had heard of his RHD Spyder also. I agree they are truly works of art, but I suspect you’d need close to a million quid to prize one out of a collectors hands – LHD cars in the US are $1.5mm all day and there’s a lot more of those about (like 20 times more). Most importantly as you say, the usability of the RS is light years better.
Again I think we can draw parallels to the RS pricing question – there were close to 1,400 Daytonas made in GTB and GTS form and the Berlinettas (as we hear on this thread) are 150K++, over 200k in some cases. But they were making frightening money in the late 80’s. As one of the guys so appositely says, great fun at 100mph in a straight line but corners like the Queen Mary. The real fun starts when your 4.4 litre V12 start smoking and you are staring a 40 grand bill in the face (Ferrari servicing, no better exponents on earth of the “while I’m in there I might as well look at the the…..” philosophy of motor vehicle maintenance.