DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Hi all,

After the fourteen being one of the most reliable cars over the last 2 years, it decided not to start yesterday

Usually it starts first time every time, now it just turns over with nothing..??

I took off the HT lead from the coil and there is no spark when turned over…..so, I replaced the coil and still nothing ?!

I do not have a volt meter to check power to the coil; is there anyway I can run through checks BACK from the coil without one..?? Fuses are OK, but cant work out from the wiring diagrams where there are any relays etc…

Has anyone had something similar ? Could it be the ignition switch ? Dodgy wire ?

The other day it was difficult to start which is unuasual and now not al all, so seems like something has been on its way out for a few days.

Other info:

1700 type 4 motor, carbs, I think it has had its points replaced with a different system…12v obviously…

Help ….. TIA, Mark

Have you checked the rotor arm and cap.

Some people have also had electronic ignition such as Pertonix Ignitor fail, I have this setup but haven't experienced any problems, although it is relatively new. Make sure there is fuel to the carbs too, can you hear the fuel pump whirring?

I also had a problem a few years that the battery was buggered, it turned the engine over but didn't have enough oomph to power the ignition system.

If the engine turns over on the ignition switch I doubt its that, but you never know.

I'm not that good at electrics so can't really offer any advice in that department.

Check and clean the points ?
Can you get a spark off the HT lead from the coil to engine if you short across the points with a screw driver ?

How old is the petrol ? can you run in some fresh from a can instead of from the tank ? Once you have it running, the old will probably keep it running fine. Petrol goes off in a matter months these days !
Just random thoughts...,
Tim

Hey Tim can you wire in my fuel pump properly for me? I've hot wire it direct to the fuse box (not very sensible). It used to run via a double relay thing that needs a signal from the efi/coil to give power through the original wiring, I've got carbs now

I'll come over and swap some of your electronic wizardery for my talented rust/paint scraping. I have my own grinder, goggles and gloves

Its not one of those damn relays is it - I had loads of grief with mine until I replaced them all!

Nige wrote:Hey Tim can you wire in my fuel pump properly for me?

I'm sure I can sort something out for you Nige.
Tim

probably worth checking all the earth connections too.

cheers guys ....no spark from the COIL so shouldnt be looking as far as rotor etc ?? Should I ??!!

Earth issue maybe...will check tomorrow....

Can I check POWER to the coil without a voltmeter ?

bum, sometimes I hate cars but mostly its cool

Any more ideas appreciated....

Mark

Hi Boomy: if I had no multi-meter this is how I would approach this.

1) Get a small (2,4,5 watt) 12v bulb and connect one wire to it's body, the other to it's 'tit' on the end, you now own a test light! The 'bulb body' wire needs to be connected to earth: make sure it's a good connection as you don't want to be wondering if your test light is reliable.

2) Look at the coil, one of the small low tension wires will come from the wiring loom, should be to the +'ve side of the coil. With the ignition on, touch your test light wire onto the same terminal: if the light works, you have power to the coil. Fault must lie with triggering the coil: see pt 4.

3) If no power to the coil, to confirm the car will run O.K., you could disconnect the +'ve wire to the coil (e.g. the one from the loom, NOT the one to the distributor). Now find a 12v source (on the 914 there is a fusebox on the nearside of the engine bay). Run a wire from the power source to the coil: make sure you can pull it off O.K., which is the equivelent of turning off the ignition. The car should now start, confirming the fault is 'before' the ignition itself.

Check:

Relays (if fitted).
Ignition switch.
Engine bay wiring, and engine wiring/loom.

As a pointer, if the engine's turning over O.K., you know that battery power and earths are easily good enough for sparks.

4) If power at coil, make sure you are checking for spark correctly: HT lead from coil ('king' lead) held 1/4 inch from good earth point whilst engine turned, or connect spark plug directly to the king lead. Beware of electric shock, esp when using electronic ignition, therefore hold with plastic tongs, or wedge in suitable position. Still no spark? You know the coil is probably O.K., so disconnect the -'ve lead from the coil (goes to distributor), put another lead onto coil -'ve, touch to earth and release: you are simulating the operation of the points: if you now have spark (and you really should!) you know the problem is points or electronic triggering.

If you have points, reconnect coil to distributor, and as Tim says, use a largish flat screwdriver to short the points, if they are currently closed, use the 'driver to open and close them: if you are getting sparks, the problem is points: check they are screwed down firmly, have the correct gap (more or less at this point), and are clean. Also check the wire to them, and the connection to the condensor. If in doubt, replace, but it would very unusual for points to completely stop working, ditto condensor, much more likely they have fully opened/closed or become disconnected.

If you have electronic ignition conversion, all you can really do is double check all of the connections, and cross your fingers.

Please note: all of the above assumes you don't have full electronic ignition or engine management: in which case check all connections, and then ask Tim!!

wow - thats comprehensive ! thx.... I will do what i can and let you know..

right, defo no spark - MOST of the time.....a couple of time the car started after persisting, but the n just cut out and died....checked spark at coil again - none - checked power with lightbulb , yep power, took lead to neg and earthed as suggested and and with ignition on, there is now a spark... , so, looked under the plastic cover in the dizzy and there is a a 'block' made of plastic and metal where the points should be...just a sealed unit with two wires coming from it that feed to the coil ....arrgghhh... wot next ... sorry, feel I should know more...but defo learning a lot !!

Again, thanks in advance !! Mark

Sounds like a Pertronix - does it look like this ?



I would try removing it, installing a set of conventional points & seeing if it starts.

Hi Mark: it certainly looks as though you've got an electronic module replacing your points: that would explain the intermittant spark, as points tend to either work or not work, at least as far as starting is concerned.

As for where to go from here: well worth double checking that any wires to the unit are firmly attached, and follow them back to where they connect to the ignition power source and coil (I assume that's why there's two leads anyway?). Make sure the unit itself is firmly attached to the distributor baseplate.

If the above look O.K. then you could probably assume that the electronic unit has failed. You'd then have three options: see whether your unit could be saved (unlikely), fit another electronic unit, or, as Andy says, put points back in. I'm assuming the distributor had points originally (most likely), and that you've fitted a standard coil? If it were my car, I'd go back to points: a little more work, but inherently more reliable. If you decide to go that route, order up two pairs of points, and two condensers: one of each for spares to keep in the car.

cheers guys .... how easy is it to reinstall points ...as youve probably gathered im no expert ! Any more help appreciatd, i wont pester you for much longer....honest !!

Mark