DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Hard to imagine from my youthful looks but our eldest turns 17 in December. Our family car is an auto, teaching her to drive in a LHD Testarossa seems a bit mean and having watched this I don’t fancy putting her in the 205: https://youtu.be/kZE1kgz6eJo?si=HuL7ZAqgtwdydr1P

I’m thinking I replace the 205 with something newer and safer that she can drive but also that’s half-fun for the grown ups to use to nip into town or bomb out to a village pub, leaning it on to the door handles at every corner.

Criteria is: Lowish insurance, small and easy to see the corners of, modern enough to be safeish, reliableish and have air con, not horribly slow, interesting, either so cheap it can’t depreciate much or so desirable it won’t depreciate much.

She wants a Fiat 500, obviously, so the 0.9 turbo is on the shortlist. I think a Panda 100HP might be a sweet spot for insurance / warm hatch balance.

Ideas please thanks love you.

I had the same conundrum, had both the Panda 100 and Fiat on the list, but ended up with a Mini one.

A good drive with a unreliable piece of crap engine

I discounted the Fiats as the ones I looked at all had broken door handles. In hindsight I’d trade changing a few door handles for dealing with that excuse for a propulsion method.

She still has a Mini (now a Cooper) that she loves. And I’ve only had to rebuild the head and change the timing chain on that one…

Interesting. Is that the 1.4 or 1.6 mini? The 1.4 looks to be insurable, the 1.6 less so.

I’m decent at Fiat door handles having changed them on a Punto and Barchetta in the past. Sounds like Fiat haven’t learned since.

The One was a 1.4, the Cooper is a 1.6.

Same basic engine, but the 1.4 version is just more of a dog than the 1.6. A friend of mine still has the One, and by some miracle it’s still going but the piston slap is so loud it can stop a conversation on the high street from 50m out…

My Son used the One to learn in, then bought the Cooper when he passed (still @17) and that had a black box for a year.

My daughter then bought the Cooper off him a year later and she learnt in that and still has it as her car. She insured it (with no black box) after she passed, again still @17) It was more than the One, but not a stupid number.

Daughter had a Mini One some years ago, Not Good.

Now on her 5th MX5. (via AUDI TT and VW Up! GTi)

Just been driving the 'Ideal Car' maybe for yours:

Skoda Citigo but the Monte Carlo version. Tornado red (super fast then) with gloss black wheels, 20mm lower suspension and fatter tyres, all factory.

Leather bound steering wheel. Fast enough (just) to cope easy with all road speeds, needs some planning to overtake. Really good brakes and nice compliant handling and grippy.
Cheap to run service wise and we see regularly 60 mpg on E10.
Possibly pricey to insure ?
Ours has 4 doors so mate friendly.
Loads for sale everywhere so cheap, but does look special, with bright and detailed interior inc mirror black dash.

Great to drive.

The Mii/Citygo/Up was also our (parent) list but ruled out very rapidly by style conscious kids. Also was significantly more expensive to purchase anyway. Ok for insurance, tax etc.

Had a few Minis. R56 Cooper 1.6 (120bhp) wasn’t bad & owned for a decent mileage without problems. Nippy so insurance might be nasty. Also had a ‘18 Mini 1499GT (1.5l “one” engine with black paint & full JCW interior). That was a bit gutless but probably better on the insurance. Now have cooper 1.5 sport ‘21. Plenty of torque (135bhp) & soft bushed suspension compared to the direct/noisy earlier generation.

My wife’s niece had an Audi A1 in her teens. There seems to be loads available, if the reliability & insurance stacks up? Should have enough “cred” for a fussy teen.

My brother bought & lightly restored a Mk2 golf for his 17yo. To slow to get himself into trouble was the theory. Not sure I’ll feel the same in a few years when my daughter hits that milestone….

Daughter 1 : fiat 500 1.2S (2015)

Great little thing, lightweight and chuckable. Feels like you’re doing 100 at 60. Really easy to drive and pass test in ( both daughters passed their tests in this car ) . You feel like you sit on the seats rather than in the seats.

It’s built to a price. Parts are stupidly cheap. Had both door handle hinges fail. Gear shift cable bush failed. Now needs suspension arms at 40k miles.

Daughter wants a car with more power now as she’s says it doesn’t have enough pep off the line

She’s now 21 and I feel she needs a bigger car

Daughter no2 : Mini one gen2 convertible 1.6 ( 2013)

Daughter absolutely loves this car. It’s more powerful and quicker and built better than the fiat. It’s also the same amount to insure weirdly . It’s only got 11k miles on it so can’t speak about reliability ( was owned by an old giffer for 10years )

The mini is more difficult for a learner to drive and it took a while for my daughter to get used to it as the engine needs revs to set off where as the fiat pulled from almost no throttle. Visability is poor in comparison and parking is more difficult.

Both daughters really want Apple car play and neither car has it !

So conclusion is … get any car as long as it has CarPlay

Thanks so far everyone. Good useful stuff.

I did notice the A1 can be had with a small engine and low insurance group. But daughter says they’re a roadman car and she identifies as not a roadman.

In a further display of sweeping user-image prejudice she reckons the Up!!!!! is the sort of sensible car private school parents buy for their kids and therefore is not cool.

She’s quite opinionated. And possibly quite right too.

The Aygo / 10x / C1 seems the most sensible and affordable option but I fear too slow to be comfortable with jostling motorway traffic.

Keep them coming!

hot66 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:56 pm Excellent anecdotal stuff

This is all great, thanks.

Just to add …. Most kids have Kia Piccantos … or at my daughters school the girls all ended up with new Vw polos

The fiat is not a motorway car . The mini is

hot66 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 5:13 pm Just to add …. Most kids have Kia Piccantos … or at my daughters school the girls all ended up with new Vw polos

There’s a nifty 100bhp turbo Picanto that I rather like, but they’re all a bit new so are £8k+ which feels like too much to spend for a first car. First cars should be at least a little bit shite.

Given that SUVs are in...

Suzuki should hold its value well



maybe a bit new, Aygo X with full length folding sunroof



if you can't live with 4x4 how about Seat Ibiza (SC Trophy for illustrative purposes only)?

VW Up and the Seat Mii or Skoda Citago’s are really good cars. If Apple car play is an issue, there are enough after market systems that now are plug and play into the double din space left by the normal unit.

The gearing is really good on them for a very small car. Get a 5 door if you can, they seem to have better retail value. Believe it or not Facebook seems to be a good place to find some bargain ones, as most people do not want to pay the usual Auto Trader prices, and Ebay can be very hit and miss - scams etc.