DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Im looking to get myself an Aircooled 911, not my first 911 after having previously owned a 997 2s .
I own a late 60s Alfa GT Jnr step front and also my weekend year round driver a 1972 Lancia S2 Fulvia 1.3s and am looking to add another.
Owning classics is all about driving them and using them regularly hence what I ideally want to find is a solid car that is or can easily become very well sorted mechanically.
Rust free is key BUT I don't want flawless paintwork or a newly painted car as it would very likely reduce its usability for me.....clearly budget is at play too, but I'm not willing to pay the extra 10-15k for a spotless garage queen.

So a basic 911t vs 2.7ltr comparison on usability, ownership and rust....do the galvanised bodies of the later cars reduce the invasion of tin worm all things being equal....I am also aware the budget will be different and I have to equate if its worth the extra money.

Clearly travelling around and test driving is not an option now and I suspect for a month or 2 yet so I just want to get some homework done and gain as much useful info/views as possible.

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Cheers.

They all rust as much as each other, so I’d say it comes down to how much you want the early pre ‘73 look as unfortunately for a comparable condition car you are paying half as much again (or more)

There is no such thing as rust free, it just hasn’t found its way to the surface yet!

Obviously the earlier the car the more ‘classic’ it will feel, but the mid ‘70s cars are still very much in that category.

The signal orange car in market place discussion is lovely, original and remarkably rust free (from the pictures)

As with most things it comes down to budget and commitment to fixing stuff!

As an owner of 2 old Italians I know it will be lurking somewhere

The analogue feeling of driving a classic is just far more rewarding than anything modern......and the design and stylings far more interesting.
As you say there is a premium to be paid for the earlier model..... but is it worth it....I guess I can only know that once I've had hands on experience.....the next best thing is to ask those who have experience.

I am mechanically minded BUT I simply do not have the space to work in so most work will be entrusted to a reliable specialist.

Thanks for coming back.

My experience is limited to my own ‘72 and my friends ‘75. His was a narrow bodied 2.7.

From behind the wheel they are largely similar and any difference felt more in suspension/wheel tyre set up, seats and maintenance between our cars rather than anything fundamental.

If you like the later style then you can get a similar experience for a lot less cash .

I have had a '78 SC and a '73 T (CIS) overlapping. Nothing in between however so can't comment on the 2.7.

The '73 gives a much more classic feel. Lighter, nimbler, noisier and you don't have to be doing mad speeds to enjoy. So closer to your Lancia and Alfa experiences. The SC, even in its first year, just feels heavier although it is clearly faster and probably handles better.

Weights. SC 1160kg, T 1050kg 180 v 140 bhp.

For sure I'd say the galvanised bodies will have lasted better. From '75MY on I think? Again my experience is based on the SC (I've had 4) but following the restorations on here and from my own '73 it seems to me rust can appear just about anywhere on the older cars whereas it tends to be limited to specific mud traps on the SC and I'm guessing that would apply to all the galvanised cars.

On that basis I suppose best of both worlds might be a '75 2.7?

Your other consideration of course is MFI versus CIS. There is clearly more love on here for MFI and I guess it would give you that throttle response you're used to on your Italians. CIS is much maligned though and served the 911 well for 10 years. The only 2.7 I've driven was a US 2.7 Carrera and it was a peppy car that didn't feel much different from my 2.4, just a bit more powerful.

Good luck with your search!

Al.

+ 1 to everything that’s just been said by Flat 6, based on my experience of driving my 71t and my previous 81 Targa SC. Loved the SC, until I bought the earlier car, and found it was everything I wanted in terms of analogue lightness, response and feel.

.

It's largely down to personal preference ...

A 2.0 litre model can feel quite different to a later 2.7 litre model - the earlier cars are lighter (as mentioned above) & have less torque, encouraging you to use more revs & more frequent gearchanges to keep the pace up, whereas as time went on, the engines increased in size, developed more torque & (in general) had a lower rev range.

In addition, the earlier cars have a 'dog leg' gearchange pattern (assuming it's a 5-speed) whereas from the 2.4 models onwards it's a 'conventional ' pattern.

The increased level of galvanising didn't appear until the 1976 model year & even those models are now ~45 years old & have only relatively recently increased significantly in value prior to which they were some of the least-loved models leading to many of them being 'neglected'.

Unfortunately, under the current restrictions, you can't take the usual route of going along to meetings/talking to owners/comparing models - difficult to get a clear idea from photos, etc & everyone's opinions (& criteria) will be different ...

.

Thanks all, very useful food for thought.
The Lancia is dog leg too (The Alfa is not) so not an issue.....providing I remember which car I'm in !

Having something a little more powerful would indeed be welcome but still maintaining feel/feedback and feeling quick at sensible (-ish) speeds.

I'll continue reading up, researching and looking.......If lock down has done anything its made me more patient !

Cheers

rdg496 wrote:..... but is it worth it....

Yes!

My 66 SWB has a 2.0 built to 2.2S spec and goes like the clappers. Feels alive. And so eager, just loves to be thrashed but will sit at 70 on the motorway no problem. I have had a 964 cab and a 77 Carrera 3.0 targa and didnt love either of those in the same way. They were very good cars, but they didnt "do it" for me (particularly not the 3.0) in terms of that feeling of getting out after a blast and feeling like you have had half a dozen strong espressos. They were a bit too refined by comparison. Great cars, but just didn't deliver the experience I was after. They were probably more day to day usable, but b@llocks to that!

I also have a 67 stepfront on its original 1600 and whilst there are similarities to the 911 there are far more differences - the main one being the 911 is lot quicker!

Like you I used to run a 997, mine was a mint C4S but it was only one up from driving a Focus really, heaven knows what a Boxster is like. I chopped it in for an aircooled and have been very happy with the much more involved pure driving experience the car affords. My pal was running a '74 2.7 which went like the clappers but only returned 12 to the gallon and recently changed hands for 127K Wow! You can get a car like this but may I suggest you start looking stateside that is of course if you don't mind LHD. Although prices have risen the Porsche is still just a quirky small sports car over there and you can pick up some real bargains and if you are lucky rust free bargains. Freighting cars back is easy peasy and there is a wealth of info regarding the documentary requirements. I've brought vehicles in from the west coast, the east and from central states and they have all been good, but buy wisely and leave the red tinted glasses at home.

This struck a chord with me...
Now driving a 997 C2S but I use to own a 64 Giuila Sprint GT, and have had a LHD 73 2.4t both cars where 'dailies' (used all year round, but not massively high millage).
For what its worth the 911 always felt more solid and properly put together (because it was!), the 2.4T (on carbs) was happy to 'lug' around all day and while it wasn't truely 'fast' it was still fun on a Sunday early morning blast, both a where useable in modern traffic.
As I'm sure you already know from your current classics they will both need more regular maintenance and attention than a modern 'tin box', I guess that's part of the fun.
The one thing I well stress is once this lockdown is over it would be good to find a specalist you trust and who understands your plans and buget for the car, his input and inspection could save you time and expense.
Enjoy your search...

All the best
Ian F.

PS. I ignored my own advice with my 550 rep and I'm paying for it now!