DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Hi all,

After a lot of help from the kind people on DDK I have managed to purchase a 1972 2.4S which was previously being used as 2.7RS Hill Climber.

I am now in the process of putting the car back to 2.4S spec to race in 70's Road Sports with the HSCC.

With help from a friend we have come up with a list of items I will need to get hold of over the next few months/years. If you have, or know of any of these items for sale please do get in touch.

- 2.4 S rear arches/ quarter panels
- Front Bonnet - Steel
- Engine lid steel or aluminium
- Rear bumper panels - Steel
- 2.4 S front spolier - GPR
- ‘S’ type alloy calipers
- Steel trailing arms
- Standard Diff
- Period look seats - Something similar to these - https://www.sportseats4u.co.uk/product/ ... undstooth/
- Engine mounts

Finally, a 2.4S race engine. Happy to consider all options here.

Kind regards,

May I ask why a 2.4 Engine doesnt the 72 year put you up against 2.7/3.0 porsches plus Ford GTs etc? Perhaps there is a sub 2.5l category?

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They have to run standard capacity. The 2.4s can be 150kg or so lighter than an impact bumper car so the power advantage is less than you’d imagine.

neilbardsley wrote:May I ask why a 2.4 Engine doesnt the 72 year put you up against 2.7/3.0 porsches plus Ford GTs etc? Perhaps there is a sub 2.5l category?

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It does. But the IB cars are forced to run at a heavier weight.

It is also a production car series so no 2.7RS, ST, RSRs.

Cheers,

HI

prob' have a STD corse spline 915 diff and STD ratios for the box

regards mike

Hia,

Is it the whole outer rear wings you need or just the standard arches to weld in?

I do have a pair of standard rear arches that can be welded in, these were removed to fit wide rear arches.

Cheers dave

We can help with the engine. I'll PM you.

i have some of the parts you need. Will pm you.

HSCC Regulations on Eligible Cars
"The HSCC 70’s Road Sports Championship is open to genuine production Sports, GT and two door Coupe cars built and road-registered between 1/1/70 and 31/12/79...........................Other cars may be eligible subject to proof of series production in period. Excluded from this Championship is all light weight, high performance or competition versions, together with any one-off specials".

I have read the regulations for the HSCC 70's Road Sports eligible cars (above) and I considered why the 2.7RS didn't qualify. It wasn't because it was not a "genuine production car" which of course it was, which leaves the term "light weight, high performance or competition versions". It was not a high performance version of the 2.4 but a model in its own right. Which leaves "light weight, and competition versions" terms which cannot be applied to all RS production cars. There may be a case for inclusion of third series 2.7RS Tourings as I will explain.

The 2.7RS was in its own right a Production car and needed to be to satisfy the FIA regulations in 1972 to homologate it racing. The FIA rules stated that 1000 production cars be built (amended in 1973 to 500) in order to homologate the car for Group 4. Although the Sport "lightweight" and RSR were competition versions (HSCC rules preclude these understandably) the Touring was definitely not. However one has to accept the exclusion of the Tourings in the first 1000 cars built as they had to be "lightweight homologation" versions first and converted after to Touring specification (this has been fully documented). But after 1000 cars were homologated there was no need to build "lightweight" cars anymore leaving 580 or so RS cars that were built based on the same production shells that 2.4 cars were, using the same thicker metal those cars had.

These are known now as third series cars and in particular third series RS Tourings may be eligible in the HSCC Road Sports series.

The third series Tourings meet the HSCC requirements as "genuine production Sports, GT and two door Coupe cars". They were built with no other purpose than to be used as road cars. By allowing a 2.4S the argument cannot be made that the 2.5ST was in any way different than ordering a RS Sport or RSR either as all these versions had VIN numbers that occurred within the production range of both models. It remains therefore under current HSCC regulations third series production RS Tourings "may be eligible subject to proof of series production in period" and this proof I submit is already well documented.

So do you propose to take it forward to them?

I have no intention of competing at the moment but someone might that does. Under their current regulations it would be interesting to see how they could refuse.

Always amusing when racers have a go at series that will not allow the car they want to race into it. The argument above is perfectly logical and before you ask, I also tried to get a 2.7RS into the HSCC 70s Roadsports. Let me explain for those that do not race. Club motorsport is run by committees, who decide on their Regulations, which then have to be approved by Motorsport UK. A list of 'eligible' cars and weights forms part of these Regulations. The success of the series is then determined by the number of drivers at each meeting and if the series is successful, which the 70s certainly is, there is no great pressure to change the Regulations. Racers in every series will always niggle about the Regulations but basically if your car is not on the list of eligible cars and the committee does not want to put it on the list, you can't race. That is the only logic that applies. (Bear in mind also that the 70s runs under Motorsport UK and not FIA Regulations.)

I actually race a 911SC in the 70s and it is a highly competitive and very sociable and inclusive series - driving standards are also high. It is the only "Championship" in the UK that you can run a 1970s 911 and several 924s and a 914 have recently joined in. I believe a well driven 2.4S would be highly competitive both in class and overall and who wants another 2.7RS replica anyway? If you want to race a 70s Porsche come and try it out with a one-off Invitation entry - you can always take your 2.7RS to the CSCC.

If of interest, much of the above applies to hill climbing, though running an RS is fine in racing and road going classes.
Several classes or rather Catagories set by MSUK, are sub divided by them or Championship organisers.
Such organisers are very small teams, maybe just 4 or 5 people, and such decisions are very carefully considered and help bring good numbers of competitors to these sub divisions with suitable cars.

Making and keeping a competitive balance is healthy.

Apart from the East African Safari Rally Porsche i don't believe entered the RS as a Group 3 car and probably even this event it was entered as a Group 4 car. Maybe someone can confirm this. The FIA started the WRC in 1973 so the EAS Rally was an FIA sanctioned event. The European Rally Championship still ran though and classified Group 4 cars under a classification Group 10. Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe only privateers would have have entered the RS as a Group 3 car in events. Such was the massive power increase by upgrading it to 2.8 (50%) or even more with a 3.0 engine by 1974 most competitors at the front ran such a configuration and entered it as an equivalent Group 4 classified car (or didn't!). Our own Nick Faure ran a 2.7RSL in 1973 in a British championship. In fact he was the first person to win a race with a 2.7RS. Does anyone know under what classification the car was entered? (RGO 2L).