DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

After sitting in heavy rain (this is the UK after all...) my car almost always has water sitting on the inner door seal in the same place, roughly adjacent to the front of the seat(s) – ie, about midway between the seat strengthener on the floor and the front 'corner' of the door opening. The door seals, both inner and outer, are all new from 914rubber. The consequence of this is that the water is absorbed by the sill carpet and then tracks down under the floor mat.

What I have discovered is that when you squeeze the seal, a fair amount of water is pushed out – the neoprene seal, instead of sealing against the door and physically preventing water getting by, appears to be soaking it up and allowing it to track into the car. Does anyone else have this problem? Or any observations? Having just had the rear floor repaired and a whole new carpet set installed, I'm keen to eliminate the leaks.

Was the original factory seal neoprene or rubber (sadly I threw the original away when I replaced the seals... doh!)?

Keith,

Try coating the seals liberally with Vaseline, that should stop any water absorption by them?

OK, here we go. Found water was filling up the void inside the seal itself, presumably entering at the open end, even though it was tucked away from the weather, or so I thought. Blew into the seal and look what happens. Amazing how much water gets trapped inside...

https://youtu.be/on-0yvOQv0M

I had to laugh – I made a similar post on the US-based 914World forum, knowing it is frequented by some very knowledgeable 914 owners. The suggestion was that I reassess my garaging situation so the car doesn't have to sit in rain!

Then, on a different post from another 914 owner about leaks, it was suggested that the best solution was never to wash your 914 (seriously!) or take it out in rain.

Am about to buy the same seals. Do you think it’s a defect in the design or a fitment issue?

What is it about seals on these cars? I found the 911 bonnet seal allows water to get behind it and traps it in so it can’t escape. So much so that I refuse to glue it in. Instead, I take the seal out after a rainy drive and let it dry out.

It's design flaw from the factory. The inner door seal is made of sponge rubber, not neoprene, and soaks up water. This then naturally tracks to the bottom due to gravity and puddles at the sill. As far as I can work out, the problem starts at the top, near the screen pillar. Rain enters through the door gap and 'should' be directed to the outer side of the outer rubber door seal, but over time the seal gets squashed flat and rain then is allowed to run down the door on the inner side, where it can be soaked up by the foam seal. That foam seal is only there to stop rattles and wind noise - it's not designed to be waterproof. So, yes, it's a design problem that goes all the way back to Karmann...

It's surprising that nobody has come up with an alternative/non-porous seal in the intervening 50 yrs ...

.

The factory always saw the UK climate as too wet and cold to be a market for Targas and 914's, so didn't make them RHD.........

JW

Lightweight_911 wrote:It's surprising that nobody has come up with an alternative/non-porous seal in the intervening 50 yrs ...

.

That's the story of the 914 - cheap car nobody wanted, not a real Porsche...all that cr@p. So nobody invested. The only new seals available – even from Porsche – are slavish copies of the original flawed design. The guy who runs 914rubber got a bit touchy and was the one who suggested I reassess the way I garage my car...

I'm determined to find a way to stop this ingress and have been experimenting by glueing bits of rubber and neoprene at the top of the door gap to see if I can successfully persuade the rain water to drain correctly. It needs a complete rethink, in reality.

Keith,

Griggs do silicone tubing in various diameters used by farmers for milking machines.
Could you get a length of this and actually thread it into the hollow seal itself, giving it a bit more rigidity internally, so it actually seals better against the door when closed?

It should also stop it acting as a sponge and soaking water up to transfer internally down inside the seal you have.

Ian

Nine One One wrote:Keith,

Griggs do silicone tubing in various diameters used by farmers for milking machines.
Could you get a length of this and actually thread it into the hollow seal itself, giving it a bit more rigidity internally, so it actually seals better against the door when closed?

It should also stop it acting as a sponge and soaking water up to transfer internally down inside the seal you have.

Ian

You are unlikely to find anything smaller than 7mm internal, 11mm or so external in silicone, and it would be a swine to try and push through.
JW

Keith, I replaced the door seals on my old car and used a standard seal called a side seal which has a section to press on the body with a rubber 'tube' in effect to seal against the door, this never leaked, ever. Have a look at the Woolies web site, something like the 264BLK or 266A. K Clarke esquire always made a point of telling me there were not to factory spec but they fitted a treat and sealed really well and looked good. A smaller version can be used for the rear boot as well. they can be bought by the metre and not that expensive.

I was not that impressed with the couple of items I bought from 914 Rubber, poorly moulded and finish, maybe I was just unlucky??

Hi Steve - that was my thinking, too, for the inner seal. I find it odd that sponge rubber was used - kinda defeats the object! I'll take a look...
(PS - how's life without a 914?).

KS wrote:Hi Steve - that was my thinking, too, for the inner seal. I find it odd that sponge rubber was used - kinda defeats the object! I'll take a look...
(PS - how's life without a 914?).

Yes, it does seem a bit odd.

Life without a 914 is.........different.......

middlefour1 wrote:Keith, I replaced the door seals on my old car and used a standard seal called a side seal which has a section to press on the body with a rubber 'tube' in effect to seal against the door, this never leaked, ever. Have a look at the Woolies web site, something like the 264BLK or 266A. K Clarke esquire always made a point of telling me there were not to factory spec but they fitted a treat and sealed really well and looked good. A smaller version can be used for the rear boot as well. they can be bought by the metre and not that expensive.

I was not that impressed with the couple of items I bought from 914 Rubber, poorly moulded and finish, maybe I was just unlucky??

Hi Steve/Keith,

I was looking at mine earlier, and it was nothing like Keith described, but pretty close, or the same as Steve is talking about. It has the gripper strip moulded to the side of a solid rubber tube, no drain holes or anything in it. I can't remember ever having a leak from there, plenty of other places, but it is a 914, after all!
I guess if the tube was clear, you could use it to check the car was level when dipping the oil! Makes me think that I should take it off every so often and drain the water out, or blow it out with the air line.........



JW