DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

As above... The boy is getting older & putting him in the 356 isn’t viable. So I’m considering selling it & buying a C2 manual ‘coupe’. I would consider a 964 but it’s the 993 I really desire.

Read a fair bit about top ends, mileage, smoke, rust, wiring loom recalls, service costs etc. Anymore info / experiences welcome. Also are there any tucked away for sale anywhere? Budget depends on car really.

The thing that bothers me is I can do pretty much every job on the 356 myself so bar the odd bit & bob ownership cost has been essentially free, apart from fuel & insurance. I will miss owning one but times change.

Thanks

Gill

I've had a manual C2 coupe for many years.

Re DIY: I'm reasonably handy, and do quite a lot on my early 911s myself, but tend to leave the 993 to the experts. I find it just tips over the edge into being a complex car, in my mind - a few too many electronics, a bit tight for space to work in places, various annoying plastic guards on things, etc. With that said, lots of folks look after their own 993s - it's not really a modern.
So running costs are non-trivial, especially if you want to keep it perfect. Because of this, and because they still run well and look good when not 100% perfect, there are loads out there which look nice but need 10-15K spending... (suspension, brakes, clutch, bit of top end engine stuff, exhaust heat shields etc soon adds up! Ask me how I know...). Proceed with caution.

With that said, they are lovely. Best of all worlds, I think - to me it still feels much like an early Porsche in all the good ways, but with the inconveniences ironed out - it's reasonably refined, comfy, feels absolutely solid. Always ready - every time I get in it, I feel like I could go to the shops or to the south of France right now, no worries.
Also on the bright side they are very rust proof indeed (unless badly repaired).

At risk of boring those who've heard me say this before - if I could only have one car, it would probably be a 993.

My 993 C4 is hewn from granite and has been the least troublesome of any car in the 13 years I have had it. It’s required wear and tear items such as a clutch, suspension and exhausts but the only failure has been a window control switch. To be fair it was bought when it was a lot newer and bought well but even so. Trans European trips, track days, nordschlieffe, school runs. Love it.

My 996 breaks every time I take it out.

993s are very good and a nice compromise between old and new. Build quality is generally good but they do rust in a few places so check it out carefully. As others have said, you do need to keep on top of maintenance so look for evidence that the money has been spent or be prepared to spend it. I would pay up for a good example personally unless you enjoy the project aspect.

I had a standard C2 and found it a little soft. A few well chosen mods (suspension, RSRs etc) make all the difference so son’t shy away from a car with subtle mods.

Good luck!

I have owned my 993 vario for almost ten years. I would endorse most of what Richard has posted. They can be driven substantial distances much like a modern. I have been to the South of France in mine as well as Germany. My car has never let me down or failed to start.
If running Boge dampers these are notoriously poor with consequent handling issues. The rear suspension is a sophisticated multi link that you need to ensure has healthy bushes throughout otherwise handling is poor.
They do rust. Key areas to look at are the rear chassis legs and the bottom corners of front and rear windscreens (Just like early 911s). The door checks are also a known problem.The check strap anchor in the A post breaks loose. Not a simple or cheap fix. Usual signs of a problem is a clicking sound from the check strap when opening / closing a door.
When in good order 993s are quick enough (0-60 around 6.00sec) and fast enough (160 mph) to be interesting. In short a competent go anywhere machine.
There are plenty of nice looking but poorly maintained vehicles available. Make sure you get a prospective purchase properly checked over by someone who knows and works on the model.

Some sound advice - thanks.

I wont be taking the step lightly although I have now sold my 356 so the ball is in motion. I'll continue doing my homework in the mean time.

Thanks

Gill.

if you're looking at RHD , be prepared to view some seriously crap cars before you find a decent one.... this applies even more so for 964's. Both times Ive been looking I've always been amazed out how rough a lot of the cars were .. dealers being some of the worst offenders.

Also , do drive a RHD before you make any decisons .. I know I always go on about it , but the offset pedals always seem more pronounced in the 964 / 993 cars proabablly due to sport seats etc. LHD is leagues better ergonomically

hot66 wrote:if you're looking at RHD , be prepared to view some seriously crap cars before you find a decent one.... this applies even more so for 964's. Both times Ive been looking I've always been amazed out how rough a lot of the cars were .. dealers being some of the worst offenders.

Also , do drive a RHD before you make any decisons .. I know I always go on about it , but the offset pedals always seem more pronounced in the 964 / 993 cars proabablly due to sport seats etc. LHD is leagues better ergonomically

This is a very good point and in addition - having seen some of the driver quality cars that have lived their life in the south of Europe and dry state US I would be very tempted to look LHD if I was currently in the market. It's amazing how the metal seams, fastenings and underbody components degrade on otherwise well maintained cars in the damp and often salty UK environment. Given their age, I think I would consider a truly corrosion free LHD import now in preference.

Was offered this from the original owner last week before he traded it at £45k, certainly plenty of £££'s on it now but very nice car, tiptronic though.
https://www.historicmotorsport.co.uk/ca ... one-owner/

Again some great tips - thanks. I appreciate the advice, I really want RHD for practicality & it must be manual.

Viewed a 96 vario manual coupe on Sunday, had a few nice bits & was priced well at 38k. However there was no service history, just pictures of it in the advert. I offered him 36 without & he sort of accepted but I walked away. An hour later it was sold for the asking price.

I probably should have bought it but followed my head. Now viewed 7 cars (3 at Paul Stephens) & it’s hard work!

I went through all this and considered everything from 356A to an early seventies 911, a 964 and even a new 911. After months of agonising I bought an ex dem 718 Boxster and set off on a holiday to the mountains of northern Spain with Classics on Tour. I had a wonderful time and don’t regret the decision at all. I intend to keep my 356c, but with old Porsche’s costing as much or more than new ones, which are much better and more reliable, faster too, I think it’s worth considering them as an alternative.

Apart from the shite sounding 4 pot

Thing is, if you like older cars and the way they drive, the newer stuff just doesn’t hit the spot ... see Keith and his Cayman for example ....

It’s a much better car than the noisy and laboured old six. Unless I revved the hell out of my 987 it struggled to pass 2 litre diesel estate cars, so sixes do sound nice, but fours have power everywhere especially if they’re turbocharged.

The 718 has GT4 rear suspension so is more stable in fast corners, more so if they’re bumpy. It really handles and it’s more relaxed because it’s doing a quieter 2000 instead of 3,100 rpm @ 80mph

The 718 is extremely fast and big step up. I tried a 981 before deciding.

Another important factor was the modern Satnav with the ability to locate places via my iPhone that it doesn’t have stored. It also displays Apple Maps and it’s own on the two screens for more detail in addition to having Apple play. If I want an internet radio station I can access it via the car touch screen.

The elderly Satnav in the 987 was pretty crude and missing many locations.

The older cars are very noisy, which can be a pain if you’re with a wife or girlfriend.

I’m playing devils advocate here, but I’ve always had classic cars knowing that moderns are hugely better especially in recent years and as a result not used them that much. I’m in the 718 a lot and really enjoying it.

Hi Gill, I was away when you first posted the question so this thread completely passed me by.

Of all the classic's over 30 odd years I've owned, the 993 is the one car that does it all. Bullet proof reliability with fantastic performance and a wonderful interior, and the cliche 'last of the aircooled' will always ensure it's place in the Porsche history books. But it's all about the drive, and it's a car you can just jump in and go forever. Cruise down to the Med in comfort or thrash it round the Evo triangle it will handle it all with ease.

As for diy, if it's a nice one then you do need to keep the service book stamped up from a resale point of view. For me the most important thing has been the suspension set up, so I do suggest if you find a good one take it to Center Gravity http://www.centregravity.co.uk/ to have it set up the way you like. Not cheap but worth every penny.

Trying to find a good one though will be hard, but it seems like you've already identified rhd narrow bodied C2 manual coupe is the way forward which is perfect. Don't get bogged down with varioram/non-varioram argument, many prefer the earlier car for it's throttle response, but between the two always go on condition, same with aircon or not.

The rust issues have already been mentioned so you know where to look for those, but do get a potential purchase checked out by an expert, especially if you're buying at the top end and spending a lot of money. Paperwork will help to verify mileage, and that's the one thing that seems to effect prices the most, having said that don't be put off by highish miles, but again for resale under 6 figures would be good.

Colour to me was important, there are lots of drab dark colours, doom blue, blacks and a dark green, but I think they look best in brighter shades, silver, yellow, white even and best of all Riviera! Red is for Ferrari's btw....

Interior colour again is a contentious issue but down to personal taste at the end of the day. The mid 90's seemed to be the era of the marble grey interior so loads of those around, not my taste I have to say! Be warned if you like black and are thinking of a re-trim, Southbound are talking over 10k to do it.

As to where to look, you have to ask around as the best ones are rarely advertised. Make yourself known on the forums as you have done here, and maybe something may come out the woodwork. I'm sure you are already but have a look on 911uk.com 993 section, http://www.911uk.com/viewforum.php?f=9 There's recent thread here of someone looking that might help..... http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=132154

As for dealers, the one name that crops up as having a very good reputation is Tom at 911 Virgin, http://www.911virgin.com/porschesforsale/ worth giving him a call and putting your name on his list for when something good comes along. Paul Stephens you've already mentioned.

Hope that's been of some help, and to finish a gratuitous picture....



My purchase thread... viewtopic.php?f=44&t=58975

Not sure if you're still looking but saw this one today which looks to be quite a nice example at a reasonable price compared to other on the market (no affiliation):

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-911- ... rk:30:pf:0

Regards