DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker

Hi All,
I have just become the owner of a 1958 Porsche 356A coupe RHD, and I may sell it.
I bought the car without knowing too much about it, admittedly I did view it but at the time I didn't actually expect to buy it so I didn't really pay enough attention.
I have restored several cars in the past, including some Porsche 911's, but I think I may have bitten off more than I can chew with this car.
It's in "project" condition and appears more or less complete, seems to have original engine, box, seats, most glass, trims, steering wheel, gauges, lights, bumpers, controls, lots of replacement panels, sills and such like, spare engine also.
I'm after some general advice, namely:
- Who would you recommend taking on the restoration? (I've already decided I'm not doing it).
- Is it worth it? Roughly how much would a full rebuild/resto cost?
- What's it worth roughly as it stands?
- Worth after?
Any advice appreciated.
Thanks.
Link for pic below, i'll add more later.
https://ibb.co/eCVDWQ

Hi, I have not had a car fully restored, but I have seen enough on here to know that there is a huge range of potential costs, with the rule being that people usually underestimate the final financial hit. But you'll know that. 356 values are pretty variable too, and not as strong as early 911s.

The final value is going to depend on who does the work, so if it is a numbers matching RHD 356A with Barry Carter or Sportwagen doing the body and an engine by Prill or Bainbridge it is going to be worth give or take 3 figures. Maybe not so much if it is patched up by a small local shop and the engine done by some random who doesnt truly know these engines and their foibles. There are lots of other names that have a good rep, PR Services in Essex, Roger Bray in Exeter etc etc.

A guess at value now would be 20-30 depending on how bad it is, matching numbers, kardex colour etc., and a guess at total resto costs would be final value minus current value!

Someone who has done this will be able to give more accurate costs if you post more details I'm sure. Where are you based?

Blimey, reminds me of a joke:my dog's got no nose.....

You can only guess at values by seeking out equivalents that have actually sold for a known figure. So many adverts, so many high prices never or rarely achieved.

Here's a couple to ponder though: https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/195 ... b-t5-coupe

Summer 2016 so a reasonably up to date price, and:

https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/por ... b-super-90

Admittedly back in 2015 but a Super 90, and pretty much any increase in value over the intervening period will have been matched by rising resto costs. You should only get stuck in if you actually want a 356 at the end of the (long, painful, expensive, irritating) process. Is yours a UK AFN supplied car?
Good luck
W

Winston speaketh sense.
It's only worth what someone will pay. If you have no idea what it is worth then just stick it on fleabay, no reserve. Job done.
Everyone gets a fair crack at it and it finds its own level.

Do you have any photos ?

In the absence of any photos my wild guess is that a worthy restoration may cost you a little more than £80k.

Once done the car may well sell for a little less than 80k.

Mike I bow to your been there done that-ness. And Winston always was a sensible chap. But those results illustrate the variability..2 'B' projects, separated by a mere £30k.

Yes, put it on ebay, but maybe spray it red first.

Having been through the process a couple of years ago (not my current car), I believe you could be looking at £100k plus for a proper and full restoration by one of the recognised 356 specialists. Clearly doing it yourself would reduce this figure. Unfortunately you cannot even begin to assess the body repair costs until the metal is shot blasted, so with what can be seen in your photo it is pure guesswork. On that basis you may be lucky to break even (depending on what you paid for the car) as 356A prices have settled (fallen slightly?) recently despite the retailers wanting to continue drive prices upwards. Top quality MATCHING NUMBERS fully restored RHD As are/have been available recently for circa £140k - £160k.

Hope that helps?

Thank you, yes some food for thought. I'm capable of doing the work myself so profit could be there, however finding the time do it "correctly" could be a problem for me, at the moment.
One other thought (and please don't shoot me down), I mean no disrespect to the car or the forum but could it be an option to strip and sell the parts. The reason I ask is it seems all there, in fact it seems to have a lot of spares too, so maybe a quicker option to get my money back. Reading between the lines from your posts I'm thinking I've overpaid. But hey, you win some you lose some.
Thank you
Phil.

If you're not in a hurry, is think the best plan would be to slowly rebuild it yourself, or do as much as you are able and farm out the rest. If you do it properly it's probably worth into five figures and will help your pension. They're also great fun to drive and more than fast enough for Brit roads.

Whether or not you paid too much for it depends on a few factors.
Firstly, the actual cost. This should never be disclosed, but would vary greatly from person to person.
Secondly, what was/is your intention? Did you intend to flip it? Expecting hoards of excited people to thrust money at you???

Personally I think the spares thing is a dead loss. The same philosophy applies to the spares as the car. Just because you see a guy advertising a date stamped wheel for £600 doesn't mean that a, yours are worth that or b, he'll get it. People ask, not many get.
The other thing is could you live with yourself for having dismantled a car for financial reasons? I'm sure you wouldn't win many friends on here.....
A true 356 aficionado would even entertain the notion.

If you need the money, just sell it "as is" and let the market decide.
Over the years I have bought many a restoration project where people have invested more than the car is worth finished, they try and recoup their costs (understandable) but as I always say, why should I pay for their mistake???
If you don't need the money (yet) do as many have, me included and just tuck it out of the way. Think of it as an index linked asset.


Sorry for the rant.

^^^^
Doesn't sound like a rant to me Simon, more like some very wise words.
If you can wait until September, the Hedingham Classics at the Castle meeting would be a great way of meeting people who have been through the pain of restoration as well as seeing lots of 356s. Maybe it will persuade you it's worth keeping?

Hi,
Yes I agree and I would hate to break it for parts. Just weighing up options.
I think I will do what I can with the resto myself, and ship out the engine and box to people with the knowledge.
Where can I get some drawings for dimensions? I have some major works to do re the front end and chassis, so some key dimensions would be needed for sure.
When I get back into the workshop next week, I will post some pics.

thanks again
Phil.

Phil,

After some deliberation I have decided to write a few words on your thread. Its clear from the cars you own you are probably fully aware of the work involved to restore that car by yourself or with a restorer. I looked at the single photo and pondered.....

The comments made above all valid. Its true, you have to really have the desire to own a running 356.
In saying that, if you know nothing about the model, you will be in the deep end for sure. Your facilities I guess with so many cars are good. They will need to be, the space set aside for this work will not be vacant for some years doing it yourself. You ask for measurements, sure the factory workshop manuals give you these but to get alignment is another thing. Sure a factory type jig would be helpful or another car by the side of the one that needs the work...

The effort is considerable, trust me, go onto www.abcgt.com and find the restoration threads. Spend maybe a week slowly going through those now underway by Justin Rio and you will understand exactly the amount of work involved. These box sections underneath delight in rusting probably far past the new sections you have as spares.

Both of the cars he is working on are all many years in already and that's just the bodywork and underneath. The interior, the engine and transmission, the wiring, the spray.....

I think I know a lot a lot about 356 but every week I find out more. in 49 years I still don't know enough. That car could bring you down into tears, or maybe like Justin somehow he plods on and gets round the problem.

So, when I bought my car in the sixties that car of yours would have been broken up. I looked at so many then that were for me beyond repair. I have never taken my car anywhere for a repair apart from having a starter motor reconditioned. I would be frightened to attempt the job you are thinking of, maybe if I were 20 years younger!!!!

Hey Phil, just a few words.................

Roy

Hi Roy,
Thank you.
Yes fortunately I do have a cracking workshop, and lots of room and facilities.
I also have a friend who has a 356, and I jokingly asked him for a lend of his (as you do!!) while I restore mine. He said yes too but we'll see if that materializes. Though i'm not sure if his is an a,b or c. Is there much difference dimensionally?
thanks
phil.

Try what I tend to do after a rash purchase...
If affordable, sit on it.
Dry store.
Free the brakes off.
Pump the tyres up.
Open the windows a smidge.
Catalogue everything.
Grease everything.
Throw a cover over it.
Come back to it in 24 months with renewed enthusiasm.
Check press for values.
Smile/cry as applicable.

(This assumes we're all here in 24 months... )